4 ms·

The real solution to all of this is to just get rid of the overly complicated tax code. No more deductions or credits. Everyone just pays some % of their gross

The real solution to all of this is to just get rid of the overly complicated tax code. No more deductions or credits. Everyone just pays some % of their gross income. Stop using tax policy as a way to pick winners and losers. The tax code is grossly stacked in favor of the wealthy. If you want to redistribute money to the needy then do so using direct payments.

WesternWind 4y ago
I mean, if you make 10k a year your fixed costs leave less money for taxes than if you make 100k or 1m a year, so doing it on a simple percentage of gross income (rather than gross revenue) is likely to accelerate poverty, which is very much picking winners and losers. Anyway the reason why we have deductions and tax breaks as such a big component is in large part because it is one of the things you don't need 60 senators to pass.
foruhar 4y ago
Not only is it not getting simpler the tax code seems to keep growing as more exceptions and exemptions get added. I guess it's like so many legacy code bases that just keep growing with lots of patches for special cases. According to the Public Law 117-154(06/23/2022), the U.S. Tax Code is 6,871 pages. When you include the federal tax regulations and the official tax guidance, the number of pages raises to approximately 75,000. This zip file (pdf) is 181MB [0]. [0] https://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml https://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml
- notch898a 4y ago
  I can't think of a single person who wants taxes to become more complicated. How on earth does this happen? This overwhelmingly defies the democratic consensus, thus absent some special constitutional protections shouldn't be possible in a democracy.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    Given that the more complicated taxes are, the easier it is for billionaires to hide what they're doing, pay less in taxes, and even get money back out from the IRS, along with giving accountants a job, is it really that much of a surprise?
  - ticviking 4y ago
    Because we each individually like the small exemptions we enjoy better than we like the idea of directly subsidizing those things. My home mortgage deduction and the solar tax credits are great examples of popular policies that would need to be changed when we simplify the code
- mdaniel 4y ago
  I briefly actually tried to read up on the laws that governed me, since I once heard "ignorance of the law is no excuse" and also was curious what, exactly, it would take to really, no kidding, translate the tax code into python or Mlang (https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.07966 https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.07966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34579236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34579236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25208853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25208853 ) However, once I realized that -- as you said -- it's not just the law it's the court (and presumably IRS) rulings that supplement the law, that was too much for me and I noped out. My 2nd idea was to become an Enrolled Agent and then write up that experience, but I couldn't readily identify how much time and money that would cost
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
    TaxGPT is our last hope.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  We should stop attempting to subsidize desired behaviors and punish bad behavior with taxes. It's dumb and purposely utilized to put holes in tax law for certain friends.
Analemma_ 4y ago
It would be nice to have this eventually, but this would be the political fight of a lifetime, whereas automatic filing can be done right now with a penstroke. Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.
saulpw 4y ago
How about, every year all US public companies must print 3% more of their own stock, which is then effectively distributed equally to all US citizens as a form of UBI. No more income tax for individuals.
- ticviking 4y ago
  That’s at least interesting. I don’t think it would work but it’s definitely interesting. I’m pretty well convinced as a country basically no one charges shareholders enough for their limited liability in their corporation, and making the company share the benefit as well as the risk isn’t the worst way I can brainstorm to deal with that
  - saulpw 4y ago
    I'm not sure it would 'work' either, but I'm curious what you think would be broken about it? It would probably make companies less interested in going public, but I like how it changes the meaning of a 'public' company to be more pro-social than just 'anyone in the investor class can purchase shares'.

WesternWind 4y ago

I mean, if you make 10k a year your fixed costs leave less money for taxes than if you make 100k or 1m a year, so doing it on a simple percentage of gross income (rather than gross revenue) is likely to accelerate poverty, which is very much picking winners and losers. Anyway the reason why we have deductions and tax breaks as such a big component is in large part because it is one of the things you don't need 60 senators to pass.

foruhar 4y ago

Not only is it not getting simpler the tax code seems to keep growing as more exceptions and exemptions get added. I guess it's like so many legacy code bases that just keep growing with lots of patches for special cases. According to the Public Law 117-154(06/23/2022), the U.S. Tax Code is 6,871 pages. When you include the federal tax regulations and the official tax guidance, the number of pages raises to approximately 75,000. This zip file (pdf) is 181MB [0]. [0] https://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml https://uscode.house.gov/download/download.shtml

notch898a 4y ago
I can't think of a single person who wants taxes to become more complicated. How on earth does this happen? This overwhelmingly defies the democratic consensus, thus absent some special constitutional protections shouldn't be possible in a democracy.
- fragmede 4y ago
  Given that the more complicated taxes are, the easier it is for billionaires to hide what they're doing, pay less in taxes, and even get money back out from the IRS, along with giving accountants a job, is it really that much of a surprise?
- ticviking 4y ago
  Because we each individually like the small exemptions we enjoy better than we like the idea of directly subsidizing those things. My home mortgage deduction and the solar tax credits are great examples of popular policies that would need to be changed when we simplify the code
mdaniel 4y ago
I briefly actually tried to read up on the laws that governed me, since I once heard "ignorance of the law is no excuse" and also was curious what, exactly, it would take to really, no kidding, translate the tax code into python or Mlang (https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.07966 https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.07966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34579236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34579236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25208853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25208853 ) However, once I realized that -- as you said -- it's not just the law it's the court (and presumably IRS) rulings that supplement the law, that was too much for me and I noped out. My 2nd idea was to become an Enrolled Agent and then write up that experience, but I couldn't readily identify how much time and money that would cost
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
  TaxGPT is our last hope.
mrguyorama 4y ago
We should stop attempting to subsidize desired behaviors and punish bad behavior with taxes. It's dumb and purposely utilized to put holes in tax law for certain friends.

Analemma_ 4y ago

It would be nice to have this eventually, but this would be the political fight of a lifetime, whereas automatic filing can be done right now with a penstroke. Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.

saulpw 4y ago

How about, every year all US public companies must print 3% more of their own stock, which is then effectively distributed equally to all US citizens as a form of UBI. No more income tax for individuals.

ticviking 4y ago
That’s at least interesting. I don’t think it would work but it’s definitely interesting. I’m pretty well convinced as a country basically no one charges shareholders enough for their limited liability in their corporation, and making the company share the benefit as well as the risk isn’t the worst way I can brainstorm to deal with that
- saulpw 4y ago
  I'm not sure it would 'work' either, but I'm curious what you think would be broken about it? It would probably make companies less interested in going public, but I like how it changes the meaning of a 'public' company to be more pro-social than just 'anyone in the investor class can purchase shares'.