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Exactly right. As an employee and a father of young kids, I love WFH. As a manager, and someone who values creativity and productivity, I know that there's a H

Exactly right. As an employee and a father of young kids, I love WFH. As a manager, and someone who values creativity and productivity, I know that there's a HUGE tax being paid from people not being physically together, exactly as you described. To the extent that everyone WFH, the tax is paid uniformly. But once people head back to the office, teams and companies that have more physical presence together will outperform and put the other people out of business.

6gvONxR4sf7o 4y ago
That's possible, but you could make the argument about any perk. Having free lunches, or paying high salaries puts companies at a disadvantage relative to competitors, all else equal. But if you free people to focus on what matters, and attract more competitive talent, it might balance out. Especially in light of attracting more competitive talent, it remains to be seen how it will balance out.
- misterprime 4y ago
  Good point. Also consider this scenario: Direct competitors choose different WFH policies. Company A: exclusively in-office. Company B: exclusively WFH. Company B can allocate all the savings from office space and infrastructure towards increased employee compensation (or whatever else they choose to spend on). Will the cost of office space prove valuable for the benefit of the in-person bonus performance? I think that a "Company C" that kept all their office space and still allowed employees to exclusively WFH would be making a mistake.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
11235813213455 4y ago
it's possible that the "team" concept works better when reunited physically. Working at distance, there are misunderstandings, and more difficulty to communicate, synchronize our views, etc.. But, I do have at least twice more energy and productivity if I work from home, and choose when to eat, go for a walk (and have good ideas at that time usually), when to sleep, no commuting, no worries like dresscode etc.. So for small companies, I believe distance working can be very interesting
DanHulton 4y ago
Citation needed. I'd be willing to say that companies that work in ways that require more physical presence and _have it_ will outperform companies that require more physical presence and _don't have it._ But the companies that adapt to remote work and aren't trying to just do everything the same way they did before should be able to continue to compete at a high level. They have before, there's no reason why they shouldn't continue to be able to.
CharlesW 4y ago
> But once people head back to the office, teams and companies that have more physical presence together will outperform and put the other people out of business. I'd love to see data if you have it. Many studies show the opposite. https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers/does-working-home-work-evidence-chinese-experiment https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers... I understand that companies have expensive real estate handsomely equipped with the finest of cubes, and that it comforts the old guard to see an army of business-casual-attired employees staring at screens, but it seems extremely unlikely that this costly and anachronistic model is going to outperform virtual competitors.
- xyzelement 4y ago
  It depends a lot on how you define productivity. If it's heads down hours, sure. But on the flip side, here's some things from my experience that I would count as productive: - saw someone looking angry at their computer for several days. Asked them what was going on. After a chat realized his project was never going to work so we canceled it. It would have taken weeks/months for us to realize this if I didn't see him physically boiling at the desk. - need a quick chat with Bob and Alice. Saw they are at their desk, just rolled over and had the chat because they happened to be there. Vs trying to find time on calendar, ending up weeks later. - crown jewel: ran into a dude I used to work with, now in a different department. Turns out he's working on something similar to me. That started a bunch of conversations, ended up combining efforts and building platform. Now running essentially 3 businesses based on 1 tech investment. Wouldn't have happened if I didn't bump into him in the elevator.
  - dudul 4y ago
    So some guy doesn't feel secure enough to report to his team mates and manager that he is struggling. Rando feels entitled to interrupt 2 Co workers whenever instead of working around their schedule. Sounds like a few things need fixing here.
    - Shaanie 4y ago
      The "I can just roll over, interrupt them and get my chat done" is a pretty funny thing to bring up as a positive. I guess for non-developer roles that actually is a positive, but eh.
dougmwne 4y ago
That’s funny because I was remote for years before the pandemic. My ability to get heads down work done and focus make me greatly outperform my in-office colleagues. Several of them were made redundant because my projects and automations swallowed up the work they were doing. My ability to document everything in writing led me to rapidly expand the knowledge under my domain while they were having their random water cooler conversations. I’m not some antisocial person either. I would enjoy traveling to the office and be sad to leave the little camaraderie party. But nothing was getting done and all that busy bee hustle was a smokescreen.
slantedview 4y ago
Your theory doesn’t explain the success of companies who were fully remote before the pandemic. Being in the office does not necessarily mean you outperform.

6gvONxR4sf7o 4y ago

That's possible, but you could make the argument about any perk. Having free lunches, or paying high salaries puts companies at a disadvantage relative to competitors, all else equal. But if you free people to focus on what matters, and attract more competitive talent, it might balance out. Especially in light of attracting more competitive talent, it remains to be seen how it will balance out.

misterprime 4y ago
Good point. Also consider this scenario: Direct competitors choose different WFH policies. Company A: exclusively in-office. Company B: exclusively WFH. Company B can allocate all the savings from office space and infrastructure towards increased employee compensation (or whatever else they choose to spend on). Will the cost of office space prove valuable for the benefit of the in-person bonus performance? I think that a "Company C" that kept all their office space and still allowed employees to exclusively WFH would be making a mistake.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

11235813213455 4y ago

it's possible that the "team" concept works better when reunited physically. Working at distance, there are misunderstandings, and more difficulty to communicate, synchronize our views, etc.. But, I do have at least twice more energy and productivity if I work from home, and choose when to eat, go for a walk (and have good ideas at that time usually), when to sleep, no commuting, no worries like dresscode etc.. So for small companies, I believe distance working can be very interesting

DanHulton 4y ago

Citation needed. I'd be willing to say that companies that work in ways that require more physical presence and _have it_ will outperform companies that require more physical presence and _don't have it._ But the companies that adapt to remote work and aren't trying to just do everything the same way they did before should be able to continue to compete at a high level. They have before, there's no reason why they shouldn't continue to be able to.

CharlesW 4y ago

> But once people head back to the office, teams and companies that have more physical presence together will outperform and put the other people out of business. I'd love to see data if you have it. Many studies show the opposite. https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers/does-working-home-work-evidence-chinese-experiment https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers... I understand that companies have expensive real estate handsomely equipped with the finest of cubes, and that it comforts the old guard to see an army of business-casual-attired employees staring at screens, but it seems extremely unlikely that this costly and anachronistic model is going to outperform virtual competitors.

xyzelement 4y ago
It depends a lot on how you define productivity. If it's heads down hours, sure. But on the flip side, here's some things from my experience that I would count as productive: - saw someone looking angry at their computer for several days. Asked them what was going on. After a chat realized his project was never going to work so we canceled it. It would have taken weeks/months for us to realize this if I didn't see him physically boiling at the desk. - need a quick chat with Bob and Alice. Saw they are at their desk, just rolled over and had the chat because they happened to be there. Vs trying to find time on calendar, ending up weeks later. - crown jewel: ran into a dude I used to work with, now in a different department. Turns out he's working on something similar to me. That started a bunch of conversations, ended up combining efforts and building platform. Now running essentially 3 businesses based on 1 tech investment. Wouldn't have happened if I didn't bump into him in the elevator.
- dudul 4y ago
  So some guy doesn't feel secure enough to report to his team mates and manager that he is struggling. Rando feels entitled to interrupt 2 Co workers whenever instead of working around their schedule. Sounds like a few things need fixing here.
  - Shaanie 4y ago
    The "I can just roll over, interrupt them and get my chat done" is a pretty funny thing to bring up as a positive. I guess for non-developer roles that actually is a positive, but eh.

dougmwne 4y ago

That’s funny because I was remote for years before the pandemic. My ability to get heads down work done and focus make me greatly outperform my in-office colleagues. Several of them were made redundant because my projects and automations swallowed up the work they were doing. My ability to document everything in writing led me to rapidly expand the knowledge under my domain while they were having their random water cooler conversations. I’m not some antisocial person either. I would enjoy traveling to the office and be sad to leave the little camaraderie party. But nothing was getting done and all that busy bee hustle was a smokescreen.

slantedview 4y ago

Your theory doesn’t explain the success of companies who were fully remote before the pandemic. Being in the office does not necessarily mean you outperform.