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I'm quite interested in the outcome of this "experiment". I wish the best for the OP, but I feel like things will end poorly. I've been a judoka for several ye

I'm quite interested in the outcome of this "experiment". I wish the best for the OP, but I feel like things will end poorly. I've been a judoka for several years; I also started late, in my 30s. I train 4-5 times a week for 2+ hours a day at one of the best dojos in my country, and my country regularly medals in international events - there's no lack of high-level talent. I've sparred with literal Olympians, and receive instruction from one of the most highly ranked and respected judoka in the world who has produced Olympic medal winning athletes, in addition to our other instructor who was a top 9 finisher in the Olympics, World Cup winner, and multi-year Pan Am champion. And you know what I've found out after all that? Competitive judo is fucking hard. It will brutalize your mind and body in ways you never thought possible. And just when you think you're getting anywhere, you'll have a match with someone at a national/international level, and you feel like you're a day-one white belt getting ragdolled by someone having fun and going at 40% of their competition-level intensity.

serjester 4y ago
Similar experience with Brazilian Jui Jutsu. If you pick up these sports late, you fundamentally move differently from the guy that's been fighting since he was a toddler. I can tell you the second someone walks in if they have a wrestling background. Experience helps but every now and then you come across someone that's picks up more in a year than you do in 5. Just look at J Rod winning ADCC's this year as a blue belt.
- CodeAndCuffs 4y ago
  Ok, so I'm not the only one who's noticed the wrestler walk? Like, something in their posture or their gait. Idk what it is, but you can just eyeball a dude and be like, "yeah he knows what a Granby roll is"
  - cxcee 4y ago
    it's probably the pelvic tilt
  - jmkr 4y ago
    As a former wrestler now I'm wondering how I walk. I wanted to post specifically because mentioning the Granby roll, it's one of those memories that stick out to me. I went to a camp specifically focused on it, I think in Pennsylvania, with someone who was pretty well known but I can't remember who it was. There I learned how to do a standing granby. Many years later, in recent history, I demonstrated a side flip, all thanks to that camp. Interesting Cedric seems to have started as a teenager, and wants to get back to it because of a regret of not doing well in nationals. This is similar to a regret I have in a tournament that I know I could have done better in. But there's really no wrestling as an adult. There's a lot of feelings I have wrt the article, and similarities to programming, and learning. But I'll save the wall of text.
- ru552 4y ago
  Jay Rod won ADCC NA trials. This is a qualifier to get into ADCC. He then lost in the first round of actual ADCC.
  - serjester 4y ago
    Correct, I should have specified. Regardless a shocking showing for someone so new to the sport.
CodeAndCuffs 4y ago
IMO this is one of the beautiful things about Judo/BJJ. I'm bad at BJJ. I know that. Yeah I can manhandle a dude my size who's day 1 no experience. Anything more than that is me trying my best and then going easy on me. I passed that purple belts guard but he could've stopped it if he wanred to bad enough. Then you roll with a legit seasoned black belt, and realize you are even worse than you thought. And it's not because of the team, or the gear, or someone cheating or lag in a videogame. It's just him being better. And you either let that beat you up, or you look forward to how high the scale goes, and keep on growing
- yodsanklai 4y ago
  > Then you roll with a legit seasoned black belt, and realize you are even worse than you thought. That's pretty much the case with all sports. Try to go skiing for the first time, and compare yourself with a champion. Fighting sports are similar, but maybe we wrongly assume there's something innate with fighting. In the end, it's all technique! at least in a sport context. One funny thing in fighting sports, is that sometimes there are big thug-looking guys joining the class, they look intimidating and dangerous, and you realize they're just as harmless as any other beginner!
  - FrontierPsych 4y ago
    Had my own martial arts school. Obviously me, and any other black belt, has sparred with white belts and it's like a club tennis pro playing tennis with someone coming in for the first time ever to play tennis. The gulf between beginners and pros is massive. That being said, I always had the imposter syndrome, and always felt like I was the exacts same level as when I was a white belt. And yes, if you have great technique, you're going to wipe the floor with someone who is a lot bigger than you are.
- bradknowles 4y ago
  So, I played Judo in college. Our teacher was jokingly referred to as "Choke Monster". As you might imagine, He was really good at choking holds. He told me once that he liked demonstrating with me, because I had good natural defensive methods. He was a 3rd degree black belt at the time. He sometimes brought black belts from his Dojo to the University class, and I loved playing with them. I got so many good learning opportunities. Even if that did mean that a 300lb black belt threw me to the ground harder than I've ever hit the mat, and then he proceeded to fall on top of me. The problem was that my natural defenses were good enough to stop his first attack attempt, but he could plan multiple attacks in sequence, and rip right from one failed attack into the next one while I was still piled up on his back. But doing so meant he had less reserve to brace over the fallen opponent, as he would normally have done. In the end, I had a minor injury to my neck, and a separate older minor injury to my hand. And I also attended one tournament at his local Dojo, which meant that I also encountered my professors Sensei, who was a 5th degree black belt. He was also the meanest and nastiest prick I ever met, and after one encounter with that asshole, I was never going back. Thus ended my year playing Judo.
neilv 4y ago
> and you feel like you're a day-one white belt getting ragdolled by someone having fun and going at 40% of their competition-level intensity. You reminded me of a nice memory. I never trained competitively, nor very far, but was fortunate to see some people with amazing ability. As a young teen learning Aikido, one time, our great sensei (at a local public school auditorium that was converted to a dojo in the evening) had a very high-ranking person from Japan visit. The visitor was middle-aged and jovial, and his family was also there. At one point, the visiting sensei was demonstrating throws in the middle of the mats, and would indicate a student who was to attack. Then he'd do some subtle, conservation-of-movement whole body thing, and the student would go flying. I received the technique myself, and the students weren't just being polite or trying to show good rolls/breakfalls -- the technique was surprisingly powerful, and you were definitely getting thrown, whether you wanted to or not. But done gently enough that you wouldn't get hurt. He would smile and maybe give a good-natured little chuckle each time.
hummus_bae 4y ago
> I'm quite interested in the outcome of this "experiment". I wish the best for the OP, but I feel like things will end poorly. I feel like you're being a little hyperbolic. The founder of HackerNews says that he trains less than half of what this guy does, so I don't see why this guy has reason for failure any more than anyone else.
yodsanklai 4y ago
I did judo for 5 years when I was a kid and a teenager (extremely popular in my country). Then I stopped and resumed in my late 20s for a few more years. I really loved that sport but it was too much strain on my body. Maybe I was in the wrong club, but for me it wasn't sustainable as an older adult, randoris were too intense (but the best part). I then switched to Muay Thai which seems like a more violent sport, but it's much easier to control the intensity, as long as you're in phase with your sparring partners.
- hermitcrab 4y ago
  I remember the first time I got my thigh shin kicked by an ex-pro thai boxer. It was like a bomb going off in my head and I felt naseous afterwards. I could feel it days afterwards. Give me judo randori any day!
  - yodsanklai 4y ago
    The same way a heavy weight olympic judoka could literally kill you by throwing you full force on the mat. I trained months in Thailand, and the instructors (pros or ex-pros) were always sparring ultra light as they didn't want to get injured before their matches, and also because it's a better way to improve. In the West, some (rare) guys tend to have a bigger ego and may actually get some pride to harm beginners in sparring which is a bit ridiculous. A healthy gym will typically discourage such behaviors. Coming back to my initial point, I feel it's easier to spar lightly in boxing than in judo.
kuhewa 4y ago
In full contact competitive arts e.g. striking and MMA the trend has been toward more and more limitation of contact sparring. For striking and grappling arts like BJJ, you can still train skills with very low contact and low intensity drills so you could train many hours of the day sustainably. I have never practiced Judo but I am pretty sure due to the dynamic nature of throws there is no real way around throwing each other to train, i.e. the intensity or equivalent of 'contact' can only get so low.
KRAKRISMOTT 4y ago
Really? I have found that like most sports it all comes down to mass and height. Winning is an entirely different case (because resisting getting thrown too much results in points loss), but if you just want to avoid falling, just be in your upper end of your weight class, don't be short, and pay attention to footwork. You won't win any competitions this way but you won't get thrown easily during tachi-waza either.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  We’re talking about winning though. It’s true it’s harder to throw a guy twice your size with good footwork (there’s a white belt at my gym who comes from BJJ and did karate as a kid, nearly impossible for me to throw) but that person also isn’t likely to get you with throws if he isn’t competent (the aforementioned gentlemen is twice my size and has never thrown me or even came close.)
- jperras 4y ago
  I honestly don't even know how to respond to most of this. You must be The Chosen One™ if all you need to do to avoid being thrown by an opponent who is more skilled than you are is "pay attention to footwork". > just be in your upper end of your weight class Nearly every single competitive athlete is at the upper end of their weight class. If you compete in -81kg, you're training/walking around at more or less 85kg, and cutting weight for competition. No one is showing up to the -81kg category weighing 75kg. > don't be short At the top level, weight classes are, effectively, height classes in disguise. There's some variation, but the distribution of heights for a particular weight class doesn't have a very large standard deviation, especially as athletes get a little older and have packed on as much muscle as they physically can onto their frame.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    > Nearly every single competitive athlete is at the upper end of their weight class This is just not true. Lots of people gain weight in working out or training that they meet the low end and it’s stigmatized to lose a few pounds so you can be at the top of a lower weight class.

serjester 4y ago

Similar experience with Brazilian Jui Jutsu. If you pick up these sports late, you fundamentally move differently from the guy that's been fighting since he was a toddler. I can tell you the second someone walks in if they have a wrestling background. Experience helps but every now and then you come across someone that's picks up more in a year than you do in 5. Just look at J Rod winning ADCC's this year as a blue belt.

CodeAndCuffs 4y ago
Ok, so I'm not the only one who's noticed the wrestler walk? Like, something in their posture or their gait. Idk what it is, but you can just eyeball a dude and be like, "yeah he knows what a Granby roll is"
- cxcee 4y ago
  it's probably the pelvic tilt
- jmkr 4y ago
  As a former wrestler now I'm wondering how I walk. I wanted to post specifically because mentioning the Granby roll, it's one of those memories that stick out to me. I went to a camp specifically focused on it, I think in Pennsylvania, with someone who was pretty well known but I can't remember who it was. There I learned how to do a standing granby. Many years later, in recent history, I demonstrated a side flip, all thanks to that camp. Interesting Cedric seems to have started as a teenager, and wants to get back to it because of a regret of not doing well in nationals. This is similar to a regret I have in a tournament that I know I could have done better in. But there's really no wrestling as an adult. There's a lot of feelings I have wrt the article, and similarities to programming, and learning. But I'll save the wall of text.
ru552 4y ago
Jay Rod won ADCC NA trials. This is a qualifier to get into ADCC. He then lost in the first round of actual ADCC.
- serjester 4y ago
  Correct, I should have specified. Regardless a shocking showing for someone so new to the sport.

CodeAndCuffs 4y ago

IMO this is one of the beautiful things about Judo/BJJ. I'm bad at BJJ. I know that. Yeah I can manhandle a dude my size who's day 1 no experience. Anything more than that is me trying my best and then going easy on me. I passed that purple belts guard but he could've stopped it if he wanred to bad enough. Then you roll with a legit seasoned black belt, and realize you are even worse than you thought. And it's not because of the team, or the gear, or someone cheating or lag in a videogame. It's just him being better. And you either let that beat you up, or you look forward to how high the scale goes, and keep on growing

yodsanklai 4y ago
> Then you roll with a legit seasoned black belt, and realize you are even worse than you thought. That's pretty much the case with all sports. Try to go skiing for the first time, and compare yourself with a champion. Fighting sports are similar, but maybe we wrongly assume there's something innate with fighting. In the end, it's all technique! at least in a sport context. One funny thing in fighting sports, is that sometimes there are big thug-looking guys joining the class, they look intimidating and dangerous, and you realize they're just as harmless as any other beginner!
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  Had my own martial arts school. Obviously me, and any other black belt, has sparred with white belts and it's like a club tennis pro playing tennis with someone coming in for the first time ever to play tennis. The gulf between beginners and pros is massive. That being said, I always had the imposter syndrome, and always felt like I was the exacts same level as when I was a white belt. And yes, if you have great technique, you're going to wipe the floor with someone who is a lot bigger than you are.
bradknowles 4y ago
So, I played Judo in college. Our teacher was jokingly referred to as "Choke Monster". As you might imagine, He was really good at choking holds. He told me once that he liked demonstrating with me, because I had good natural defensive methods. He was a 3rd degree black belt at the time. He sometimes brought black belts from his Dojo to the University class, and I loved playing with them. I got so many good learning opportunities. Even if that did mean that a 300lb black belt threw me to the ground harder than I've ever hit the mat, and then he proceeded to fall on top of me. The problem was that my natural defenses were good enough to stop his first attack attempt, but he could plan multiple attacks in sequence, and rip right from one failed attack into the next one while I was still piled up on his back. But doing so meant he had less reserve to brace over the fallen opponent, as he would normally have done. In the end, I had a minor injury to my neck, and a separate older minor injury to my hand. And I also attended one tournament at his local Dojo, which meant that I also encountered my professors Sensei, who was a 5th degree black belt. He was also the meanest and nastiest prick I ever met, and after one encounter with that asshole, I was never going back. Thus ended my year playing Judo.

neilv 4y ago

> and you feel like you're a day-one white belt getting ragdolled by someone having fun and going at 40% of their competition-level intensity. You reminded me of a nice memory. I never trained competitively, nor very far, but was fortunate to see some people with amazing ability. As a young teen learning Aikido, one time, our great sensei (at a local public school auditorium that was converted to a dojo in the evening) had a very high-ranking person from Japan visit. The visitor was middle-aged and jovial, and his family was also there. At one point, the visiting sensei was demonstrating throws in the middle of the mats, and would indicate a student who was to attack. Then he'd do some subtle, conservation-of-movement whole body thing, and the student would go flying. I received the technique myself, and the students weren't just being polite or trying to show good rolls/breakfalls -- the technique was surprisingly powerful, and you were definitely getting thrown, whether you wanted to or not. But done gently enough that you wouldn't get hurt. He would smile and maybe give a good-natured little chuckle each time.

hummus_bae 4y ago

> I'm quite interested in the outcome of this "experiment". I wish the best for the OP, but I feel like things will end poorly. I feel like you're being a little hyperbolic. The founder of HackerNews says that he trains less than half of what this guy does, so I don't see why this guy has reason for failure any more than anyone else.

yodsanklai 4y ago

I did judo for 5 years when I was a kid and a teenager (extremely popular in my country). Then I stopped and resumed in my late 20s for a few more years. I really loved that sport but it was too much strain on my body. Maybe I was in the wrong club, but for me it wasn't sustainable as an older adult, randoris were too intense (but the best part). I then switched to Muay Thai which seems like a more violent sport, but it's much easier to control the intensity, as long as you're in phase with your sparring partners.

hermitcrab 4y ago
I remember the first time I got my thigh shin kicked by an ex-pro thai boxer. It was like a bomb going off in my head and I felt naseous afterwards. I could feel it days afterwards. Give me judo randori any day!
- yodsanklai 4y ago
  The same way a heavy weight olympic judoka could literally kill you by throwing you full force on the mat. I trained months in Thailand, and the instructors (pros or ex-pros) were always sparring ultra light as they didn't want to get injured before their matches, and also because it's a better way to improve. In the West, some (rare) guys tend to have a bigger ego and may actually get some pride to harm beginners in sparring which is a bit ridiculous. A healthy gym will typically discourage such behaviors. Coming back to my initial point, I feel it's easier to spar lightly in boxing than in judo.

kuhewa 4y ago

In full contact competitive arts e.g. striking and MMA the trend has been toward more and more limitation of contact sparring. For striking and grappling arts like BJJ, you can still train skills with very low contact and low intensity drills so you could train many hours of the day sustainably. I have never practiced Judo but I am pretty sure due to the dynamic nature of throws there is no real way around throwing each other to train, i.e. the intensity or equivalent of 'contact' can only get so low.

KRAKRISMOTT 4y ago

Really? I have found that like most sports it all comes down to mass and height. Winning is an entirely different case (because resisting getting thrown too much results in points loss), but if you just want to avoid falling, just be in your upper end of your weight class, don't be short, and pay attention to footwork. You won't win any competitions this way but you won't get thrown easily during tachi-waza either.

edgyquant 4y ago
We’re talking about winning though. It’s true it’s harder to throw a guy twice your size with good footwork (there’s a white belt at my gym who comes from BJJ and did karate as a kid, nearly impossible for me to throw) but that person also isn’t likely to get you with throws if he isn’t competent (the aforementioned gentlemen is twice my size and has never thrown me or even came close.)
jperras 4y ago
I honestly don't even know how to respond to most of this. You must be The Chosen One™ if all you need to do to avoid being thrown by an opponent who is more skilled than you are is "pay attention to footwork". > just be in your upper end of your weight class Nearly every single competitive athlete is at the upper end of their weight class. If you compete in -81kg, you're training/walking around at more or less 85kg, and cutting weight for competition. No one is showing up to the -81kg category weighing 75kg. > don't be short At the top level, weight classes are, effectively, height classes in disguise. There's some variation, but the distribution of heights for a particular weight class doesn't have a very large standard deviation, especially as athletes get a little older and have packed on as much muscle as they physically can onto their frame.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  > Nearly every single competitive athlete is at the upper end of their weight class This is just not true. Lots of people gain weight in working out or training that they meet the low end and it’s stigmatized to lose a few pounds so you can be at the top of a lower weight class.