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I suspect once the dust settles we will learn that the vaccine net increased transmission. Without the vaccine patients suffer a more serious illness and are mo

I suspect once the dust settles we will learn that the vaccine net increased transmission. Without the vaccine patients suffer a more serious illness and are more likely to stay home and self isolate, if the illness is less serious that is less likely.

aintgonnatakeit 4y ago
Perhaps you are forgetting that the original COVID-19 strain did not present symptoms before it became infectious. Or perhaps you don’t care as it doesn’t reflect your intention.
linuxftw 4y ago
Actually, if you look at the data Pfizer give to the FDA (the stuff that was initially released), there were more 'suspected by not confirmed' cases of COVID-19 in the control group than the test group. Pfizer did not actively test each participant. It only selectively tested some patients and not others, based on symptoms. They provided no explanation of 'suspected but unconfirmed' cases. If they suspected them, perhaps they should have tested them, but they didn't.
gwbas1c 4y ago
I doubt it. People were going stir crazy, and it was really, really hard to keep people home or masked in public. Most likely people would have decided they were going to live their lives, and then we'd see a lot more elderly people pass from it. I remember some lady barging through my door the day after Halloween, without a mask, because she had to give my kids treats.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  I don't understand your point, are you saying that it doesn't matter how bad the illness is it would have no impact on behavior? Did the lady who burst into your home have severe respitory distress, if she did do you think that would've altered her behavior?
  - gwbas1c 4y ago
    > I suspect once the dust settles we will learn that the vaccine net increased transmission My opinion is that without a vaccine net transmission would have gone up without a vaccine, because people would have decided to take their chances and stop waiting for a vaccine. As far as the lady who barged into my house, she knocked on the door without a mask on November 1, 2020, and pushed her way in to give my kids treats. I sometimes used to hang a mask on my front door's knob, but I don't remember if I had one easily accessible.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      You seem to be under the impression that the vaccine is effective in preventing transmission, it isn't. Even if you were spending time with people who were all vaccinated you are still taking your chances to the same degree if they hadn't been, except for the fact that the vaccine suppresses symptoms so presumably someone who was really sick might have stayed home instead.
      - gwbas1c 4y ago
        I am well aware of that. I hosted my parents 50th anniversary in 2021 and had to explain that to my mom when she asked if I'd host my aunts and uncles. (We have a very large family.) This was a few months before I got vaccinated. From what I understand, the vaccines generally shorten how long a person is infectious.
        linuxftw 4y ago
        > From what I understand, the vaccines generally shorten how long a person is infectious. No clinical trial has shown this to be the case. People assume likes of things about these products, many of which are untrue or at least not backed by any evidence.
        gwbas1c 4y ago
        https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/11/covid-19-vaccination-spread/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/11/covid-19-vaccination-... > But vaccinated people clear the virus faster, with lower levels of virus overall, and have less time with very high levels of virus present. Therefore, vaccinated people are, on average, likely to be less contagious.

aintgonnatakeit 4y ago

Perhaps you are forgetting that the original COVID-19 strain did not present symptoms before it became infectious. Or perhaps you don’t care as it doesn’t reflect your intention.

linuxftw 4y ago

Actually, if you look at the data Pfizer give to the FDA (the stuff that was initially released), there were more 'suspected by not confirmed' cases of COVID-19 in the control group than the test group. Pfizer did not actively test each participant. It only selectively tested some patients and not others, based on symptoms. They provided no explanation of 'suspected but unconfirmed' cases. If they suspected them, perhaps they should have tested them, but they didn't.

gwbas1c 4y ago

I doubt it. People were going stir crazy, and it was really, really hard to keep people home or masked in public. Most likely people would have decided they were going to live their lives, and then we'd see a lot more elderly people pass from it. I remember some lady barging through my door the day after Halloween, without a mask, because she had to give my kids treats.

willcipriano 4y ago
I don't understand your point, are you saying that it doesn't matter how bad the illness is it would have no impact on behavior? Did the lady who burst into your home have severe respitory distress, if she did do you think that would've altered her behavior?
- gwbas1c 4y ago
  > I suspect once the dust settles we will learn that the vaccine net increased transmission My opinion is that without a vaccine net transmission would have gone up without a vaccine, because people would have decided to take their chances and stop waiting for a vaccine. As far as the lady who barged into my house, she knocked on the door without a mask on November 1, 2020, and pushed her way in to give my kids treats. I sometimes used to hang a mask on my front door's knob, but I don't remember if I had one easily accessible.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    You seem to be under the impression that the vaccine is effective in preventing transmission, it isn't. Even if you were spending time with people who were all vaccinated you are still taking your chances to the same degree if they hadn't been, except for the fact that the vaccine suppresses symptoms so presumably someone who was really sick might have stayed home instead.
    - gwbas1c 4y ago
      I am well aware of that. I hosted my parents 50th anniversary in 2021 and had to explain that to my mom when she asked if I'd host my aunts and uncles. (We have a very large family.) This was a few months before I got vaccinated. From what I understand, the vaccines generally shorten how long a person is infectious.
      - linuxftw 4y ago
        > From what I understand, the vaccines generally shorten how long a person is infectious. No clinical trial has shown this to be the case. People assume likes of things about these products, many of which are untrue or at least not backed by any evidence.
        gwbas1c 4y ago
        https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/11/covid-19-vaccination-spread/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/11/covid-19-vaccination-... > But vaccinated people clear the virus faster, with lower levels of virus overall, and have less time with very high levels of virus present. Therefore, vaccinated people are, on average, likely to be less contagious.