4 ms·

Tour of large American high school goes viral

15 points by bko 4y ago

mcphage 4y ago
If there's going to be a viral video of how large and well-funded a government building is, I don't think there's a better option than a school. Very nice :-)
tinglymintyfrsh 4y ago
Is random social media news relevant to HN?
bko 4y ago
People bring up funding but Carmel high school doesn't spend more than others. > However, Carmel High School spends significantly less per pupil than public high schools in Indianapolis. According to the Indiana Department of Education, Carmel High School in 2020 spent between $3,500 to $6,000 less per pupil compared to the four public high schools in Indianapolis. I remember when Zuckerberg donated $100 million to Newark schools. Needless to say you won't be seeing any viral videos from Newark students showing off their schools I wish people looked at this with awe rather than envy. We can have nice things. https://reason.com/2023/02/15/bad-schools-arent-always-underfunded/ https://reason.com/2023/02/15/bad-schools-arent-always-under... https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-zuckerberg-schools-education-newark-mayor-ras-baraka-cory-booker-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-zuckerberg-schools-educ...
- yucky 4y ago
  That reminds me of the recent article showing Detroit Public Schools having the distinction of both the highest per pupil spend and the lowest test scores in their state by a wide margin.
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  Schools in poor areas will always cost significantly more per student because they carry more societal weight that isn't being carried at the students' homes.
- scottLobster 4y ago
  It's been proven time and again that there are many factors beyond money that go into making a good school. It's a little taboo because it can come off as victim-blaming/classist/racist. If the majority of parents for whatever reasons don't value education, the school will suck. If the majority of kids are poorly raised and abused at home, the school will suck. Wealthy areas don't just have good schools because they're rich. They also have good schools because wealthy people universally and correctly value education as a means of generating/perpetuating their wealth. Even the dumbest, weakest, most self-entitled wealthy person knows a college degree matters, even if they don't understand how or why or which degree. And they're wealthy, so they won't bat an eye at marginally increased property taxes to fund schools, and they make sure their kids go to school.
  - bko 4y ago
    That could explain performance, but not necessarily facilities. I think it has more to do with corruption and accountability. If you're dumping money into a school, why can't you have something nice (physically)? Unless you're spending all that money on counselors or other things wealthy districts don't have to worry about as much. It may be old fashioned but broken window principle applies. If things are nice and maintained, they're more likely to stay that way.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    Educational outcomes may suck, but the school (facilities) will not. The problem is really what is happening with the dollars spent ? Its entirely OK for kids with more dollars to show worse outcomes than a school like Carmel, for exactly the reasons you cite. HOWEVER, a school with difficult families and students that is well funded, should be outperforming similar other schools with less funds. But that's not the case. And there is the whole philosophical discussion on whether burning cash for no outcomes, is worth it. Maybe that money should be going to other things that could have better bank for the buck (i.e. assistance for single mothers working)
- meetingthrower 4y ago
  So much this. I saw this go viral and all the comments were about the "rich Carmel suburb." The fact of the matter is that they are spending WAY less per student (including infrastructure funding.) Part of this is scale for sure - it is a huge school - but also just good management. Wish we had more of it.
eitally 4y ago
Funny to see CHS here. My aunt lives in Carmel and taught choir there for her whole career, and both my cousins went to high school there (and swam for the swim team in that natatorium). I remember visiting and always being shocked that a high school could have 4000+ students (I didn't realize it was nearly 5500 now!). I grew up in a small city (~75k) with two high schools and thought mine was pretty big at 1400 students, so seeing such lavish facilities was mind-blowing. CHS is far superior to many small colleges -- it's incredible how efficient it all is, too (in terms of $/pupil).
mindcandy 4y ago
I attended Carmel HS some 30ish years ago. It was a great school back then. Though a bit smaller :). One of the privileges of my life was that my family moved from Indianapolis to the outer edge of Carmel specifically so I could attend that HS and junior HS. I haven’t seen it in person for some 20 years. How does it work so well per dollar spent? I’m no expert. But, a couple theories from the Twitter peanut gallery: With 5500 student spread over 22 miles, some argue it should have been 3 separate schools to cut down travel time. I recall the bus ride taking over an hour for some of us. It was built 50 years ago in a wealthy county of a poor state. They have been building up to this level aggressively for decades now. I recall controversy over construction projects back when I was there. The parents and local businesses are highly engaged with the local government, community and schools. Expectations are very high both academically and athletically.
Red_Tarsius 4y ago
Mutual respect for the public space is key. This is what I mean when I think about high trust environment. Basic example: that computer room full of nice iMacs. How many cases of theft or vandalism would it take for the school to shut it down? At first, it would be forced to surveil and severely limit its access (higher upkeep cost). But if the students kept stealing or smashing the equipment, eventually the computer room would be no more. And good luck having a wood/autoshop in some areas: that's begging for a lawsuit after someone ends up misusing the tools or straight dead. Now expand this reasoning to everything you see on this video. It's no wonder schools in bad neighborhoods end up costing more than schools like CHS.

15 points by bko 4y ago

If there's going to be a viral video of how large and well-funded a government building is, I don't think there's a better option than a school. Very nice :-)

tinglymintyfrsh 4y ago

Is random social media news relevant to HN?

bko 4y ago

People bring up funding but Carmel high school doesn't spend more than others. > However, Carmel High School spends significantly less per pupil than public high schools in Indianapolis. According to the Indiana Department of Education, Carmel High School in 2020 spent between $3,500 to $6,000 less per pupil compared to the four public high schools in Indianapolis. I remember when Zuckerberg donated $100 million to Newark schools. Needless to say you won't be seeing any viral videos from Newark students showing off their schools I wish people looked at this with awe rather than envy. We can have nice things. https://reason.com/2023/02/15/bad-schools-arent-always-underfunded/ https://reason.com/2023/02/15/bad-schools-arent-always-under... https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-zuckerberg-schools-education-newark-mayor-ras-baraka-cory-booker-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-zuckerberg-schools-educ...

yucky 4y ago
That reminds me of the recent article showing Detroit Public Schools having the distinction of both the highest per pupil spend and the lowest test scores in their state by a wide margin.
throwaway6734 4y ago
Schools in poor areas will always cost significantly more per student because they carry more societal weight that isn't being carried at the students' homes.
scottLobster 4y ago
It's been proven time and again that there are many factors beyond money that go into making a good school. It's a little taboo because it can come off as victim-blaming/classist/racist. If the majority of parents for whatever reasons don't value education, the school will suck. If the majority of kids are poorly raised and abused at home, the school will suck. Wealthy areas don't just have good schools because they're rich. They also have good schools because wealthy people universally and correctly value education as a means of generating/perpetuating their wealth. Even the dumbest, weakest, most self-entitled wealthy person knows a college degree matters, even if they don't understand how or why or which degree. And they're wealthy, so they won't bat an eye at marginally increased property taxes to fund schools, and they make sure their kids go to school.
- bko 4y ago
  That could explain performance, but not necessarily facilities. I think it has more to do with corruption and accountability. If you're dumping money into a school, why can't you have something nice (physically)? Unless you're spending all that money on counselors or other things wealthy districts don't have to worry about as much. It may be old fashioned but broken window principle applies. If things are nice and maintained, they're more likely to stay that way.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Educational outcomes may suck, but the school (facilities) will not. The problem is really what is happening with the dollars spent ? Its entirely OK for kids with more dollars to show worse outcomes than a school like Carmel, for exactly the reasons you cite. HOWEVER, a school with difficult families and students that is well funded, should be outperforming similar other schools with less funds. But that's not the case. And there is the whole philosophical discussion on whether burning cash for no outcomes, is worth it. Maybe that money should be going to other things that could have better bank for the buck (i.e. assistance for single mothers working)
meetingthrower 4y ago
So much this. I saw this go viral and all the comments were about the "rich Carmel suburb." The fact of the matter is that they are spending WAY less per student (including infrastructure funding.) Part of this is scale for sure - it is a huge school - but also just good management. Wish we had more of it.

eitally 4y ago

Funny to see CHS here. My aunt lives in Carmel and taught choir there for her whole career, and both my cousins went to high school there (and swam for the swim team in that natatorium). I remember visiting and always being shocked that a high school could have 4000+ students (I didn't realize it was nearly 5500 now!). I grew up in a small city (~75k) with two high schools and thought mine was pretty big at 1400 students, so seeing such lavish facilities was mind-blowing. CHS is far superior to many small colleges -- it's incredible how efficient it all is, too (in terms of $/pupil).

mindcandy 4y ago

I attended Carmel HS some 30ish years ago. It was a great school back then. Though a bit smaller :). One of the privileges of my life was that my family moved from Indianapolis to the outer edge of Carmel specifically so I could attend that HS and junior HS. I haven’t seen it in person for some 20 years. How does it work so well per dollar spent? I’m no expert. But, a couple theories from the Twitter peanut gallery: With 5500 student spread over 22 miles, some argue it should have been 3 separate schools to cut down travel time. I recall the bus ride taking over an hour for some of us. It was built 50 years ago in a wealthy county of a poor state. They have been building up to this level aggressively for decades now. I recall controversy over construction projects back when I was there. The parents and local businesses are highly engaged with the local government, community and schools. Expectations are very high both academically and athletically.

Red_Tarsius 4y ago

Mutual respect for the public space is key. This is what I mean when I think about high trust environment. Basic example: that computer room full of nice iMacs. How many cases of theft or vandalism would it take for the school to shut it down? At first, it would be forced to surveil and severely limit its access (higher upkeep cost). But if the students kept stealing or smashing the equipment, eventually the computer room would be no more. And good luck having a wood/autoshop in some areas: that's begging for a lawsuit after someone ends up misusing the tools or straight dead. Now expand this reasoning to everything you see on this video. It's no wonder schools in bad neighborhoods end up costing more than schools like CHS.