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Yeah, I'm not a lawyer and even I knew you can't do that shit. Not straight-up punitive fines like that. You don't even need to have any familiarity with contra

Yeah, I'm not a lawyer and even I knew you can't do that shit. Not straight-up punitive fines like that. You don't even need to have any familiarity with contract law to figure this out—those provisions would be everywhere if they had any chance in hell of holding up. They're not, so, they must not hold up. QED.

lifeformed 4y ago
What's the difference between a punitive fine and something like a late fee?
- lozenge 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidated_damages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidated_damages "Under the common law, liquidated damages may not be set so high that they are penalty clauses rather than fair compensation... Generally, at common law, a liquidated damages clause will not be enforced if its purpose is to punish the party in breach rather than to compensate the injured party" If Tile provides information to the police to help catch a stalker, they can't claim their reputational damage is $1m. Actually, even their statements in this thread show that it's intended as a punishment.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  A fee is (somehow) linked to costs suffered because of the breech. If you return a rental car late then you have to pay for the extra time, along with any other incidental expenses suffered. A "late fee" might cover the costs associated with them providing a different car to customers who had booked your car. Or, if they had no other cars, whatever they had to do to satisfy those other customers. You are allowed to identify so-called liquidated damages in a contract. You aren't allowed to create a lottery whereby you can demand millions from customers who make small mistakes.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Double-especially true in TOS that aren't even properly negotiated. There's a bit more leeway if it's, say, two businesses hammering out a real contract, a true meeting of the minds, but, in a display of uncharacteristic sanity on the part of the US legal system, these kinds of boilerplate take-it-or-leave-it "contracts" usually aren't allowed to get as out-there as the real thing can (though even in those cases, something like this would be pretty damn iffy)

lifeformed 4y ago

What's the difference between a punitive fine and something like a late fee?

lozenge 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidated_damages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidated_damages "Under the common law, liquidated damages may not be set so high that they are penalty clauses rather than fair compensation... Generally, at common law, a liquidated damages clause will not be enforced if its purpose is to punish the party in breach rather than to compensate the injured party" If Tile provides information to the police to help catch a stalker, they can't claim their reputational damage is $1m. Actually, even their statements in this thread show that it's intended as a punishment.
sandworm101 4y ago
A fee is (somehow) linked to costs suffered because of the breech. If you return a rental car late then you have to pay for the extra time, along with any other incidental expenses suffered. A "late fee" might cover the costs associated with them providing a different car to customers who had booked your car. Or, if they had no other cars, whatever they had to do to satisfy those other customers. You are allowed to identify so-called liquidated damages in a contract. You aren't allowed to create a lottery whereby you can demand millions from customers who make small mistakes.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Double-especially true in TOS that aren't even properly negotiated. There's a bit more leeway if it's, say, two businesses hammering out a real contract, a true meeting of the minds, but, in a display of uncharacteristic sanity on the part of the US legal system, these kinds of boilerplate take-it-or-leave-it "contracts" usually aren't allowed to get as out-there as the real thing can (though even in those cases, something like this would be pretty damn iffy)