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Well I'll admit hadn't considered that factor, I guess I'll find out in a decade or so when my daughter reaches that age, although hopefully that mentality will

Well I'll admit hadn't considered that factor, I guess I'll find out in a decade or so when my daughter reaches that age, although hopefully that mentality will have died out once that generation gets a decade of reality under their belt. That said I kinda get the social media obsession, that was college for me and I was all in on the facebook parasocial queues (not liking someone's post that they KNOW you saw was an offense, and other crazy shit). For me it was ultimately a function of not having anything better to do. High school is supermax prison in terms of options, college is like minimum security prison, it's not really until you hit the realization that your decisions have actual weight in your life and you aren't just going to be pushed along by external forces that you start to grow out of that. High school ends and eventually becomes irrelevant, but good luck explaining that to a teenager. I'd argue the income question is also part of the problem, the "mail room to executive" pipeline, if it ever really existed, has been completely broken. As you say, it used to be that person working the McDonalds drive through might be something big some day. Nowadays that's 100% assured to not be the case, McDonalds drive through is a dead-end job you do to stay alive until you can trade up to a different career path.

tristor 4y ago
> As you say, it used to be that person working the McDonalds drive through might be something big some day. Nowadays that's 100% assured to not be the case, McDonalds drive through is a dead-end job you do to stay alive until you can trade up to a different career path. Can you expand on how you see these two statements as different conceptually? At least for folks in my generation, I don't think anyone harbored delusions that they were going to make it big by working at McDonald's, but it was seen as a way to get basic work experience and the benefit of a wage while you worked towards something different. The "mail room to executive" pipeline was always a fantasy, as far as I'm concerned, just due to basic math, there's a lot more mail room clerks than executives, so it in all probability won't happen to you. On the flip side, working a summer job provides you a pathway to pay for entertainment and a modicum of freedom so you can explore the world and figure out what you actually want to do. At least that's how it was seen when I was a teenager.
- scottLobster 4y ago
  I guess I'm conflating two concepts, my overall point is that getting a job in high school used to be seen as "getting your foot in the door", one way or another. Like you said, at the very least it got you money/freedom to explore, and you had time to explore. You were seen as someone who was getting their start in the world. Nowadays the options for standard middle-class success are a lot more constricted. There is much less "freedom" and "exploring" unless you're wealthy, working at McDonalds will just get you an ultimately meaningless amount of money and experience that no one values, while sucking up your time. Even when I was in high school there was no time for "exploration" outside of academics if you wanted a positive outcome. You were either on the AP/honors track and going to college to be a "success", or you had a job/took normal classes and either couldn't afford college or were just coasting into mediocrity. I imagine it's gotten even more stark since I graduated, given prevailing economic circumstances. I'd say the desire to be an influencer/streamer is also partially the result of that. Sure statistically most influencers/streamers don't make much, but there's at least the potential of freedom/success that doesn't exist with a McDonalds job, directly or indirectly; and the barrier to entry is low. It would be like if everyone's parents bought them a guitar/drum set and there was a social hierarchy based on being a rock star. If I can be so bold as to link it into larger trends, one thread I've noticed is that in previous generations' countercultures, whether it was the hippies in the 60s/70s or grungy Xers in the 90s, there was an underlying assumption that the American Dream was vanity. That you didn't need all of that stuff and could "drop out", calling someone a "sellout" was a serious insult. You could always find a way to "get by" even if you weren't living large. Because during those times where the income/cost of living disparity wasn't so large, you probably could. Don't worry about prosperity, go become an assistant manager at Staples and spend your time on what really matters! Nowadays economics don't support that, so we have "hustle culture", where you're expected to "grind", and that's the superficially "cool" thing to do. Even if you're just hocking bullshit, make that money! Given the limited options available to high school students, it follows that being an influence/streamer, something they can literally do on their phone, is the only universally attractive objective.
randomdata 4y ago
> Nowadays that's 100% assured to not be the case That's the source of fear I mentioned earlier, being sold this idea that the only way to get a job is to go to college and if you don't 100% focus on college you won't make it. But there is nothing in the data to suggest that idea actually panned out. All signs point to young adults having a much harder time moving up because they didn't work in their youth to gain the experience necessary to navigate the waters of the economy.

tristor 4y ago

> As you say, it used to be that person working the McDonalds drive through might be something big some day. Nowadays that's 100% assured to not be the case, McDonalds drive through is a dead-end job you do to stay alive until you can trade up to a different career path. Can you expand on how you see these two statements as different conceptually? At least for folks in my generation, I don't think anyone harbored delusions that they were going to make it big by working at McDonald's, but it was seen as a way to get basic work experience and the benefit of a wage while you worked towards something different. The "mail room to executive" pipeline was always a fantasy, as far as I'm concerned, just due to basic math, there's a lot more mail room clerks than executives, so it in all probability won't happen to you. On the flip side, working a summer job provides you a pathway to pay for entertainment and a modicum of freedom so you can explore the world and figure out what you actually want to do. At least that's how it was seen when I was a teenager.

scottLobster 4y ago
I guess I'm conflating two concepts, my overall point is that getting a job in high school used to be seen as "getting your foot in the door", one way or another. Like you said, at the very least it got you money/freedom to explore, and you had time to explore. You were seen as someone who was getting their start in the world. Nowadays the options for standard middle-class success are a lot more constricted. There is much less "freedom" and "exploring" unless you're wealthy, working at McDonalds will just get you an ultimately meaningless amount of money and experience that no one values, while sucking up your time. Even when I was in high school there was no time for "exploration" outside of academics if you wanted a positive outcome. You were either on the AP/honors track and going to college to be a "success", or you had a job/took normal classes and either couldn't afford college or were just coasting into mediocrity. I imagine it's gotten even more stark since I graduated, given prevailing economic circumstances. I'd say the desire to be an influencer/streamer is also partially the result of that. Sure statistically most influencers/streamers don't make much, but there's at least the potential of freedom/success that doesn't exist with a McDonalds job, directly or indirectly; and the barrier to entry is low. It would be like if everyone's parents bought them a guitar/drum set and there was a social hierarchy based on being a rock star. If I can be so bold as to link it into larger trends, one thread I've noticed is that in previous generations' countercultures, whether it was the hippies in the 60s/70s or grungy Xers in the 90s, there was an underlying assumption that the American Dream was vanity. That you didn't need all of that stuff and could "drop out", calling someone a "sellout" was a serious insult. You could always find a way to "get by" even if you weren't living large. Because during those times where the income/cost of living disparity wasn't so large, you probably could. Don't worry about prosperity, go become an assistant manager at Staples and spend your time on what really matters! Nowadays economics don't support that, so we have "hustle culture", where you're expected to "grind", and that's the superficially "cool" thing to do. Even if you're just hocking bullshit, make that money! Given the limited options available to high school students, it follows that being an influence/streamer, something they can literally do on their phone, is the only universally attractive objective.

randomdata 4y ago

> Nowadays that's 100% assured to not be the case That's the source of fear I mentioned earlier, being sold this idea that the only way to get a job is to go to college and if you don't 100% focus on college you won't make it. But there is nothing in the data to suggest that idea actually panned out. All signs point to young adults having a much harder time moving up because they didn't work in their youth to gain the experience necessary to navigate the waters of the economy.