4 ms·

One doubts anyone can muster the energy even to pretend to surprise in this case. It's worth keeping details like this in mind, however, when discussing society

One doubts anyone can muster the energy even to pretend to surprise in this case. It's worth keeping details like this in mind, however, when discussing society-destroying disasters like stupid wars in other hemispheres or insurance-firm-directed health care. We hear lots of arguments that boil down to: "don't criticize democracy; if the'merican people wanted something else they would vote differently!" As we see more clearly in simpler cases like this, in USA we don't have representative government; rather we have an increasingly less convincing simulation of representative government.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
And if the elites only pretend to be democratic, why should the populous accept that quietly and not just rise up?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- voakbasda 4y ago
  Bread and circuses[0] keep the population fed and entertained, and people will put up with a lot of bullshit from their government when those basic needs are met. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
GeekyBear 4y ago
We're living in the second Gilded Age. >Political corruption was rampant, as business leaders spent significant amounts of money ensuring that government did not regulate the activities of big business—and they more often than not got what they wanted. Such corruption was so commonplace that in 1868 the New York state legislature legalized such bribery. Historian Howard Zinn argues that the U.S. government was acting exactly as Karl Marx described capitalist states: "pretending neutrality to maintain order, but serving the interests of the rich". Historian Mark Wahlgren Summers calls it, "The Era of Good Stealings," noting how machine politicians used "padded expenses, lucrative contracts, outright embezzlements, and illegal bond issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age
- mistrial9 4y ago
  ok - but you could see these things as persistent illness in any civilization of this size.. So, outrage at the existence alone is not constructive; instead treat the illness knowing that it will never completely go away. "checks and balances" you know? there is a tendency to boil over and demand immediate change.. temper that, make longer commitments?
  - pksebben 4y ago
    longer commitments are what entrench these patterns. the illness must be allowed to be terminal - we can plant good seeds in fresh ground sooner or wait it out as things get progressively worse and build the pressure of the ending catastrophe ever higher. An analogue is controlled, regular burns. Look at California - we stopped allowing the dead matter to cull and now we have blazes that take out whole townships. The only way to break an infinite recursive loop is a crash. That's where we are with money => influence => law => money
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    Outrage is absolutely constructive. The first Gilded Age only gave way to the Progressive Era's reforms after an expose that got the general public completely pissed off. >The Treason of the Senate was a series of articles in Cosmopolitan magazine by David Graham Phillips, published in 1906. The articles were each published a month apart, beginning with the forward in February and the last article, in July. The series is a caustic exposé of the corruption of the United States Senate Phillips published this series of articles at the close of what is to be considered the Gilded Age, which is the period when money and politics became very interconnected. The expansion of the railroad industry combined with increased production of steel, iron, and oil contributed to a group of immensely wealthy businessmen that came to be known by the term tycoon. These wealthy tycoons used their wealth to influence the already contentious politics of the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treason_of_the_Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treason_of_the_Senate
    - jessaustin 4y ago
      Outrage is absolutely constructive. I hope you're right. Please join us at the anti-war rally at the Lincoln Memorial on Sunday at 12:30. [0] If you can't make it to Washington, there are affiliated rallies happening in various locations around the world this weekend. [0] https://rageagainstwar.com/ https://rageagainstwar.com/

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

And if the elites only pretend to be democratic, why should the populous accept that quietly and not just rise up?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
voakbasda 4y ago
Bread and circuses[0] keep the population fed and entertained, and people will put up with a lot of bullshit from their government when those basic needs are met. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

GeekyBear 4y ago

We're living in the second Gilded Age. >Political corruption was rampant, as business leaders spent significant amounts of money ensuring that government did not regulate the activities of big business—and they more often than not got what they wanted. Such corruption was so commonplace that in 1868 the New York state legislature legalized such bribery. Historian Howard Zinn argues that the U.S. government was acting exactly as Karl Marx described capitalist states: "pretending neutrality to maintain order, but serving the interests of the rich". Historian Mark Wahlgren Summers calls it, "The Era of Good Stealings," noting how machine politicians used "padded expenses, lucrative contracts, outright embezzlements, and illegal bond issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age

mistrial9 4y ago
ok - but you could see these things as persistent illness in any civilization of this size.. So, outrage at the existence alone is not constructive; instead treat the illness knowing that it will never completely go away. "checks and balances" you know? there is a tendency to boil over and demand immediate change.. temper that, make longer commitments?
- pksebben 4y ago
  longer commitments are what entrench these patterns. the illness must be allowed to be terminal - we can plant good seeds in fresh ground sooner or wait it out as things get progressively worse and build the pressure of the ending catastrophe ever higher. An analogue is controlled, regular burns. Look at California - we stopped allowing the dead matter to cull and now we have blazes that take out whole townships. The only way to break an infinite recursive loop is a crash. That's where we are with money => influence => law => money
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  Outrage is absolutely constructive. The first Gilded Age only gave way to the Progressive Era's reforms after an expose that got the general public completely pissed off. >The Treason of the Senate was a series of articles in Cosmopolitan magazine by David Graham Phillips, published in 1906. The articles were each published a month apart, beginning with the forward in February and the last article, in July. The series is a caustic exposé of the corruption of the United States Senate Phillips published this series of articles at the close of what is to be considered the Gilded Age, which is the period when money and politics became very interconnected. The expansion of the railroad industry combined with increased production of steel, iron, and oil contributed to a group of immensely wealthy businessmen that came to be known by the term tycoon. These wealthy tycoons used their wealth to influence the already contentious politics of the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treason_of_the_Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treason_of_the_Senate
  - jessaustin 4y ago
    Outrage is absolutely constructive. I hope you're right. Please join us at the anti-war rally at the Lincoln Memorial on Sunday at 12:30. [0] If you can't make it to Washington, there are affiliated rallies happening in various locations around the world this weekend. [0] https://rageagainstwar.com/ https://rageagainstwar.com/