9 ms·

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary wi

by usrusr 4y ago

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car, everything that happens outside the car is inevitably out-and-back. A car person will never miss that little freedom because they don't know it and objectively it's truly not that big an issue. But if you are not used to the pattern of always returning to wherever you parked it can feel surprisingly limiting. Similar things apply in the reverse, to a public transport person it's just natural to mentally map out a city's topology in units of line changes required, but a car person will feel outrageously constrained.

realworldperson 4y ago
[dead]
AceyMan 4y ago
I am (well, was, pre-pandemic) the odd Los Angeles tech worker who used the bus & my bicycle for all my commuting, and many of my errand runs. I always enjoyed reminding my car-enslaved colleagues, "I never have to park the bus." People fail to notice for all the time (and distance) spent walking back to retrieve their car. It always felt like such a victory to hop on and off busses, taking care of four or five errands, and never once having to retrace my steps.
- oblio 4y ago
  > I always enjoyed reminding my car-enslaved colleagues, "I never have to park the bus." Clearly spoken as someone who's never played (defensive) football!
CalRobert 4y ago
True freedom is a folding bike! Ride to point a, take your Brompton with you on the train to point B, ride to point c, etc.
- eastbound 4y ago
  True freedom is city bikes. Go anywhere worry-free, empty handed, come back using a simple card. 35€ per year in Lyon, France. Unplanned arrival at 1am in the wrong train station? A bike is still waiting for you. Drawbacks: It’s only free for 30 minutes per trip; Sometimes you still get the bike stolen for 150€.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    Sadly cold climate areas struggle with making this a reality. Boston has a big network of these bikes and ridership is huge in the warmer months, but drops off a cliff when it gets cold and icy. I know areas in Europe achieve this, but Copenhagen is warmer and less snowy than Boston.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      Meet Oulu, the winter cycling capital of the world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU - including the reasons why people do not cycle in winter (it's not primarily the cold)
antisthenes 4y ago
Must be nice to live in a country where public transport exists and is reasonably functional to get you places without having to wait 25-30 minutes at every leg of your journey.
- fragmede 4y ago
  I live in a city where that's the case for my day-to-day, but I certainly pay for it with increased rent, among other things. Still, life's too short to live somewhere you hate.
tropicalbeach 4y ago
You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I hate being around so many people packed in a train, airplane, bus.
- MengerSponge 4y ago
  Driving is a luxury, and should be priced accordingly
  - serpix 4y ago
    It is ridiculously expensive but the freedom is unparalleled. It would takes two hours to go across town. It takes 30 minutes by car. This is in Helsinki. Public transport works only to and from city center, sideways travel is royally painful.
    - earthling8118 4y ago
      Cars are chains that bind us, nothing more. The "freedom" to pay for insurance, gasoline, tires, batteries, and whatever else happens to go wrong. Cities with a proper public transit story also tend to have better driving experiences too
  - bathtub365 4y ago
    It’s quite expensive to buy and maintain a car
    - MengerSponge 4y ago
      Yes, and public roads should be an additional cost. I'm not interested in banning cars, but I am interested in charging appropriately for sprawl and air pollution.
tablespoon 4y ago
> As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked... Do you feel the same way about your home? Your day's itinerary will inevitably have to see you return there, too. Too see the other side, it may be useful to think of a personal car as home-like transportation infrastructure and always using public transit like living full-time in hostels.
- pavlov 4y ago
  Driving is not like being at home because it requires active focus and continuous observation of an evolving social situation where other people’s decisions could cost lives. If sitting on a train is like being in a hostel, then driving is like doing tedious office work in a cubicle. I’d rather hang out at the hostel.
  - lotsoweiners 4y ago
    Maybe for you but not for everyone. I’ve been driving for almost 30 years, consistently speed well above the speed limit, text and drive, and probably all of the other no nos that some people preach. Still never been in an accident or been pulled over and I pretty much am zoned out whenever I drive.
    - TchoBeer 4y ago
      this is concerning. Please do not text and drive.
    - pavlov 4y ago
      Indeed, driving is a social situation where other people’s bad decisions can affect me very negatively. Even if I drive carefully, it’s not enough because someone else out there is texting, confident that their sample size of one means nothing can happen. This dynamic doesn’t exist on a train.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Driving is not like being at home because it requires active focus and continuous observation of an evolving social situation where other people’s decisions could cost lives. You're unreasonably expecting the analogy to be a perfect map between the two situations, when no analogy ever is. My car is more home-like than a bus, because the car is my space.
AmVess 4y ago
And you are at the mercy of the whims of politicians. One city I lived in, they simply ended public transport altogether. Another city, they rerouted the lines in the poor part of town which made life incredible difficult for the older residents there. Their trip to the grocery store went up by two hours.
Insanity 4y ago
I used public transportation (and cycling) throughout most of my twenties and only got my own car in my thirties. Public transport only works when you live in an urban area with good connections. Where I used to live, public transport was often delayed, or on strike. During winter it was annoying to have to wait in the cold for a bus or train that had 30+ minutes delay. And during rush hour the train and bus were so packed you could not sit down for most of the ride. Meanwhile, with the car, I don't have any of those frustrations. During rush hour I'll sit in my car rather than waiting in the cold or standing up in a train. Given, finding parking can sometimes be frustrating, but it's a minor frustration. Going grocery shopping (or anything larger and heavier) is way more convenient with the car as well. That said, bicycling is still one of my favourite ways to commute when the weather permits. :-)
- Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
  > Public transport only works when you live in an urban area with good connections. It also works when you live in a rural area with good connections. (I live in one such. I was going to say “I’m lucky enough to live in one such” but there’s no luck involved: I chose this place because of it.)
- yonaguska 4y ago
  Yep, once I started cycling, public transportation became a painful exercise in constraint. I would even prefer to cycle through freezing temperatures on icy roads rather than cram myself into a train or on a bus. Luckily for me, the bike ride was a 20 minute commute for most of my 20s, while the bus/train would be 40 minutes, and a care would also be about 30-40 minutes with traffic. True freedom for me is the motorcycle. I have a car now, but once I got a motorcycle, I got all the benefit of being outside, and somewhat on my own two feet, with the range to take trips out of the city and neighboring states for day trips. Unfortunately, with the way that people drive today, I ride my motorcycle less and less.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

by usrusr 4y ago

realworldperson 4y ago

[dead]

AceyMan 4y ago

I am (well, was, pre-pandemic) the odd Los Angeles tech worker who used the bus & my bicycle for all my commuting, and many of my errand runs. I always enjoyed reminding my car-enslaved colleagues, "I never have to park the bus." People fail to notice for all the time (and distance) spent walking back to retrieve their car. It always felt like such a victory to hop on and off busses, taking care of four or five errands, and never once having to retrace my steps.

oblio 4y ago
> I always enjoyed reminding my car-enslaved colleagues, "I never have to park the bus." Clearly spoken as someone who's never played (defensive) football!

CalRobert 4y ago

True freedom is a folding bike! Ride to point a, take your Brompton with you on the train to point B, ride to point c, etc.

eastbound 4y ago
True freedom is city bikes. Go anywhere worry-free, empty handed, come back using a simple card. 35€ per year in Lyon, France. Unplanned arrival at 1am in the wrong train station? A bike is still waiting for you. Drawbacks: It’s only free for 30 minutes per trip; Sometimes you still get the bike stolen for 150€.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Sadly cold climate areas struggle with making this a reality. Boston has a big network of these bikes and ridership is huge in the warmer months, but drops off a cliff when it gets cold and icy. I know areas in Europe achieve this, but Copenhagen is warmer and less snowy than Boston.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    Meet Oulu, the winter cycling capital of the world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU - including the reasons why people do not cycle in winter (it's not primarily the cold)

antisthenes 4y ago

Must be nice to live in a country where public transport exists and is reasonably functional to get you places without having to wait 25-30 minutes at every leg of your journey.

fragmede 4y ago
I live in a city where that's the case for my day-to-day, but I certainly pay for it with increased rent, among other things. Still, life's too short to live somewhere you hate.

tropicalbeach 4y ago

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I hate being around so many people packed in a train, airplane, bus.

MengerSponge 4y ago
Driving is a luxury, and should be priced accordingly
- serpix 4y ago
  It is ridiculously expensive but the freedom is unparalleled. It would takes two hours to go across town. It takes 30 minutes by car. This is in Helsinki. Public transport works only to and from city center, sideways travel is royally painful.
  - earthling8118 4y ago
    Cars are chains that bind us, nothing more. The "freedom" to pay for insurance, gasoline, tires, batteries, and whatever else happens to go wrong. Cities with a proper public transit story also tend to have better driving experiences too
- bathtub365 4y ago
  It’s quite expensive to buy and maintain a car
  - MengerSponge 4y ago
    Yes, and public roads should be an additional cost. I'm not interested in banning cars, but I am interested in charging appropriately for sprawl and air pollution.

tablespoon 4y ago

> As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked... Do you feel the same way about your home? Your day's itinerary will inevitably have to see you return there, too. Too see the other side, it may be useful to think of a personal car as home-like transportation infrastructure and always using public transit like living full-time in hostels.

pavlov 4y ago
Driving is not like being at home because it requires active focus and continuous observation of an evolving social situation where other people’s decisions could cost lives. If sitting on a train is like being in a hostel, then driving is like doing tedious office work in a cubicle. I’d rather hang out at the hostel.
- lotsoweiners 4y ago
  Maybe for you but not for everyone. I’ve been driving for almost 30 years, consistently speed well above the speed limit, text and drive, and probably all of the other no nos that some people preach. Still never been in an accident or been pulled over and I pretty much am zoned out whenever I drive.
  - TchoBeer 4y ago
    this is concerning. Please do not text and drive.
  - pavlov 4y ago
    Indeed, driving is a social situation where other people’s bad decisions can affect me very negatively. Even if I drive carefully, it’s not enough because someone else out there is texting, confident that their sample size of one means nothing can happen. This dynamic doesn’t exist on a train.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Driving is not like being at home because it requires active focus and continuous observation of an evolving social situation where other people’s decisions could cost lives. You're unreasonably expecting the analogy to be a perfect map between the two situations, when no analogy ever is. My car is more home-like than a bus, because the car is my space.

AmVess 4y ago

And you are at the mercy of the whims of politicians. One city I lived in, they simply ended public transport altogether. Another city, they rerouted the lines in the poor part of town which made life incredible difficult for the older residents there. Their trip to the grocery store went up by two hours.

Insanity 4y ago

I used public transportation (and cycling) throughout most of my twenties and only got my own car in my thirties. Public transport only works when you live in an urban area with good connections. Where I used to live, public transport was often delayed, or on strike. During winter it was annoying to have to wait in the cold for a bus or train that had 30+ minutes delay. And during rush hour the train and bus were so packed you could not sit down for most of the ride. Meanwhile, with the car, I don't have any of those frustrations. During rush hour I'll sit in my car rather than waiting in the cold or standing up in a train. Given, finding parking can sometimes be frustrating, but it's a minor frustration. Going grocery shopping (or anything larger and heavier) is way more convenient with the car as well. That said, bicycling is still one of my favourite ways to commute when the weather permits. :-)

Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
> Public transport only works when you live in an urban area with good connections. It also works when you live in a rural area with good connections. (I live in one such. I was going to say “I’m lucky enough to live in one such” but there’s no luck involved: I chose this place because of it.)
yonaguska 4y ago
Yep, once I started cycling, public transportation became a painful exercise in constraint. I would even prefer to cycle through freezing temperatures on icy roads rather than cram myself into a train or on a bus. Luckily for me, the bike ride was a 20 minute commute for most of my 20s, while the bus/train would be 40 minutes, and a care would also be about 30-40 minutes with traffic. True freedom for me is the motorcycle. I have a car now, but once I got a motorcycle, I got all the benefit of being outside, and somewhat on my own two feet, with the range to take trips out of the city and neighboring states for day trips. Unfortunately, with the way that people drive today, I ride my motorcycle less and less.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]