4 ms·

Proving my point, because something like 80% of the land in Toronto is zoned for single-family housing. The Toronto metropolitan area is one massive sprawling s

Proving my point, because something like 80% of the land in Toronto is zoned for single-family housing. The Toronto metropolitan area is one massive sprawling suburb. How would these numbers look like if we had more dense walkable neighborhoods? No need to speculate, simply look at similar statistics from places like Montreal.

GiorgioG 4y ago
Not everyone wants to live in dense housing. I grew up in Buffalo and spent many many hours on the QEW driving family to/from Pearson Intl. Every ride up there I'd be in awe of the number of cranes in the sky as new (I assumed) residential buildings were going up around Toronto. It seems like high density developments are a thing in the GTA: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/07/gta-communities-worry-about-impact-of-high-density-developments/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/07/gta-communities-worry... and like everything else they are not without their own problems. I grew up in a single-family home, and also spent a year in an apartment in France as a kid and while it was more walkable...it wasn't better or worse - it was just different. People have choices, if they want to live in a more walkable city, they can relocate to one. If enough people vote with their feet, the cities will have to adapt. It seems like the people living in the 80% single-family zoned areas of Toronto are not unhappy/inconvenienced enough with the state of things to leave.
- david-gpu 4y ago
  > It seems like the people living in the 80% single-family zoned areas of Toronto are not unhappy/inconvenienced enough with the state of things to leave. How could they be? They externalize all of their noise and traffic to the denser neighbourhoods. And the people living in denser areas are subsidizing the immense amount of roads and public infrastructure consumed by those suburbs. They are having their cake and eating it too. I may not be able to afford moving to a nicer place, but I can sure complain about it!
- mcv 4y ago
  From what I understand, a big problem in North America is that there is almost no new mid-density building. Most is low density, and where anything denser is allowed, it's immediately all skyscrapers. The few surviving mid-density neighbourhoods, especially when walkable, are often extremely popular and expensive, but very rare, and no new ones are being built because the zoning rules don't allow them. These are choices that simply aren't available in much of North America. People can't vote for them with their feet if they don't exist and people aren't aware of them.
  - GiorgioG 4y ago
    Folks that can afford to live in a single home tend do to so outside of cities. When people/governments propose medium/high density developments, there's a huge pushback because the perception is that lower income people will live in those developments and "cause problems". I'm not saying I buy it, but I do think that's part of the problem with increasing density in single-family home areas.
    - mcv 4y ago
      They could leave the existing developments as they are, but use mid-density buildings in new developments. A big problem is also unfamiliarity. People aren't used to it anymore.
- BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  > Not everyone wants to live in dense housing Two factors to make dense housing acceptable 1. Larger units 2. Mandated recording booth quality soundproofing between units

GiorgioG 4y ago

Not everyone wants to live in dense housing. I grew up in Buffalo and spent many many hours on the QEW driving family to/from Pearson Intl. Every ride up there I'd be in awe of the number of cranes in the sky as new (I assumed) residential buildings were going up around Toronto. It seems like high density developments are a thing in the GTA: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/07/gta-communities-worry-about-impact-of-high-density-developments/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/07/gta-communities-worry... and like everything else they are not without their own problems. I grew up in a single-family home, and also spent a year in an apartment in France as a kid and while it was more walkable...it wasn't better or worse - it was just different. People have choices, if they want to live in a more walkable city, they can relocate to one. If enough people vote with their feet, the cities will have to adapt. It seems like the people living in the 80% single-family zoned areas of Toronto are not unhappy/inconvenienced enough with the state of things to leave.

david-gpu 4y ago
> It seems like the people living in the 80% single-family zoned areas of Toronto are not unhappy/inconvenienced enough with the state of things to leave. How could they be? They externalize all of their noise and traffic to the denser neighbourhoods. And the people living in denser areas are subsidizing the immense amount of roads and public infrastructure consumed by those suburbs. They are having their cake and eating it too. I may not be able to afford moving to a nicer place, but I can sure complain about it!
mcv 4y ago
From what I understand, a big problem in North America is that there is almost no new mid-density building. Most is low density, and where anything denser is allowed, it's immediately all skyscrapers. The few surviving mid-density neighbourhoods, especially when walkable, are often extremely popular and expensive, but very rare, and no new ones are being built because the zoning rules don't allow them. These are choices that simply aren't available in much of North America. People can't vote for them with their feet if they don't exist and people aren't aware of them.
- GiorgioG 4y ago
  Folks that can afford to live in a single home tend do to so outside of cities. When people/governments propose medium/high density developments, there's a huge pushback because the perception is that lower income people will live in those developments and "cause problems". I'm not saying I buy it, but I do think that's part of the problem with increasing density in single-family home areas.
  - mcv 4y ago
    They could leave the existing developments as they are, but use mid-density buildings in new developments. A big problem is also unfamiliarity. People aren't used to it anymore.
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
> Not everyone wants to live in dense housing Two factors to make dense housing acceptable 1. Larger units 2. Mandated recording booth quality soundproofing between units