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I agree, but in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they b

I agree, but in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they bike half an hour in rain to buy groceries... For my family it's not even about the physical aspect, but about time. I don't want to waste my free time going to and from places in 2x/3x the time it takes by car.

runako 4y ago
> in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they bike half an hour in rain to buy groceries... Fully expecting that comment, and I look forward to that person describing how they take an elderly parent to the doctor on a bike…
- mantas 4y ago
  CARGO BIKE /s
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    You’re being sarcastic, but I’ve been there and done that. For $reasons. Under other circumstances, the answer would be “take a cab.”
    - mantas 4y ago
      „Take a cab“ is always an option. But at some point, if using it frequently enough, it becomes cheaper and more convenient to just own the damn thing.
      - Xylakant 4y ago
        If you take into account the current costs for cars, you can do a lot of kilometer per cab every month. I‘ve done the math for me - I could take the cab around 20-30 times a month for an average distance, for the costs associated with a VW Golf size car. There are also options that cover the middle ground: Mixed mode (cab, train, cab) or car sharing. Certainly not available for all of us, but just as certainly available to many of us. The primary issue is that the math only works out if you don’t buy/own a car, otherwise you‘ll have the majority of the costs of car ownership anyways. On a pure mile by mile replacement, the math doesn‘t work out.
        mantas 4y ago
        If you MUST lease a brand new car and replace it every few years - probably. But driving a slightly older car is perfectly fine. There're a lot of other variables. Family/life situation, hobbies, health situation, visual (fuck video ads on public transit) and audio noise tolerance...
        Xylakant 4y ago
        People upthread ran the numbers and arrived at 600 USD/month for a used car. Seems high to me, but I don't know how the math works out in the US. For Germany, this is a pretty good modeling of the costs https://financer.com/de/blog/was-kostet-ein-auto-im-monat/ https://financer.com/de/blog/was-kostet-ein-auto-im-monat/ and it still arrives at 240 EUR/month for a used car. That's maybe not 20 cab rides, but still a significant number. Obviously, the math I did for me works out for me. It likely will look different for you. However, I never pretended that the math works out for everyone - it doesn't. But it would work out for a lot of people if they were honest.
        mantas 4y ago
        I've no idea for US either, but 600 USD/mo looks weird. For me here in Lithuania it was cheaper than that even while I was paying off my car. Now driving a paid-off-but-well-maintained car is more like €150/month for ~ 1k km a month with occasional maintenance, insurance and rare downtown parking. Obviously it is higher than that when including previous lease payments, but historical price is going down every month. So it could be pretty close to €240 after all, but buying a new car and then keeping it is not exactly a „used car“ budget... „If they were honest“ is a bad argument to be honest. If everybody would change their preferences, they may have similar math to yours :)
        Xylakant 4y ago
        By "were honest" I mostly mean "honest with themselves". There are a lot of costs that are easy to forget or ignore. The cost of parking in the city. The occasional repair. Having to tow your car, because it broke. Deprecation of a valuable asset. Very few people take stock of what they actually spend on their car, because it's hard and it's constantly shifting. Some costs are annually and (mostly) independent of your annual mileage - insurance and tax, for example. Others are constant and directly associated with your mileage - fuel. Yet, others again are directly associated but come in lumps - maintenance, tires, ... Deprecation is fuzzy and partially outside of any factor you can control, etc.
- lnsru 4y ago
  That’s perfect case for a taxi. However I love cars and just playing devil’s advocate here.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    The cost of a taxi ride is not affordable if you need to make that type of trip often. Paying $40 for a ride once or twice a year is okay, but if you need to make a weekly trip to the doctor, plus get groceries and go to church on Sunday - a brand new car is now cheaper (a brand new car is very expensive, most people drive older used cars that are a lot cheaper)
- rexpress 4y ago
  The 'elderly parent to the doctor' case is still an argument for bike infrastructure. The more people choose to travel by bike instead of by car, the more space is available on the roads for those that need motor vehicles.
- Steltek 4y ago
  Don't be silly. The elderly parent with bad reflexes and even worse eyesight will drive themselves to the doctor in their equally decrepit car. That's what really happens when you reinforce the belief that cars are a necessity because bikes are some extreme hardship.
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    You’re joking but I once took an elderly man from the front entrance of his building to the parking lot in my cab because he couldn’t walk that far with his walker (which wasn’t all that far from the back door) and had to help him get behind the wheel to drive off. Needless to say I waited a bit for him to clear the neighborhood before driving off.
    - Steltek 4y ago
      Oh I'm very much NOT joking! I was stopped at a red light on my bike when I was rear ended by an 83yo. He couldn't judge how far his car was from my bike. He was super angry that I insisted he had to stick around to exchange information because he was going to be late for a doctor's appointment in Brookline. Thankfully it was low speed (he was stopping, he just didn't know where to stop) so all he did was knock me forwards.
      - UncleEntity 4y ago
        83 must be the magic year… Had one back into me at a traffic light, with me honking, and then put it into drive and take off when the light changed. Had to have the cops drag him out of a medical building to get a report and his story went from “no accident” (at the scene) to me rear ending him (on the witness stand contesting his ticket), luckily I was hauling around a passenger who confirmed my side of the story. Still don’t have a clue why he thought it was a good idea to put it into reverse and barely creep backward at a red light with cars all around him.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

runako 4y ago

> in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they bike half an hour in rain to buy groceries... Fully expecting that comment, and I look forward to that person describing how they take an elderly parent to the doctor on a bike…

mantas 4y ago
CARGO BIKE /s
- Xylakant 4y ago
  You’re being sarcastic, but I’ve been there and done that. For $reasons. Under other circumstances, the answer would be “take a cab.”
  - mantas 4y ago
    „Take a cab“ is always an option. But at some point, if using it frequently enough, it becomes cheaper and more convenient to just own the damn thing.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      If you take into account the current costs for cars, you can do a lot of kilometer per cab every month. I‘ve done the math for me - I could take the cab around 20-30 times a month for an average distance, for the costs associated with a VW Golf size car. There are also options that cover the middle ground: Mixed mode (cab, train, cab) or car sharing. Certainly not available for all of us, but just as certainly available to many of us. The primary issue is that the math only works out if you don’t buy/own a car, otherwise you‘ll have the majority of the costs of car ownership anyways. On a pure mile by mile replacement, the math doesn‘t work out.
      - mantas 4y ago
        If you MUST lease a brand new car and replace it every few years - probably. But driving a slightly older car is perfectly fine. There're a lot of other variables. Family/life situation, hobbies, health situation, visual (fuck video ads on public transit) and audio noise tolerance...
        Xylakant 4y ago
        People upthread ran the numbers and arrived at 600 USD/month for a used car. Seems high to me, but I don't know how the math works out in the US. For Germany, this is a pretty good modeling of the costs https://financer.com/de/blog/was-kostet-ein-auto-im-monat/ https://financer.com/de/blog/was-kostet-ein-auto-im-monat/ and it still arrives at 240 EUR/month for a used car. That's maybe not 20 cab rides, but still a significant number. Obviously, the math I did for me works out for me. It likely will look different for you. However, I never pretended that the math works out for everyone - it doesn't. But it would work out for a lot of people if they were honest.
        mantas 4y ago
        I've no idea for US either, but 600 USD/mo looks weird. For me here in Lithuania it was cheaper than that even while I was paying off my car. Now driving a paid-off-but-well-maintained car is more like €150/month for ~ 1k km a month with occasional maintenance, insurance and rare downtown parking. Obviously it is higher than that when including previous lease payments, but historical price is going down every month. So it could be pretty close to €240 after all, but buying a new car and then keeping it is not exactly a „used car“ budget... „If they were honest“ is a bad argument to be honest. If everybody would change their preferences, they may have similar math to yours :)
        Xylakant 4y ago
        By "were honest" I mostly mean "honest with themselves". There are a lot of costs that are easy to forget or ignore. The cost of parking in the city. The occasional repair. Having to tow your car, because it broke. Deprecation of a valuable asset. Very few people take stock of what they actually spend on their car, because it's hard and it's constantly shifting. Some costs are annually and (mostly) independent of your annual mileage - insurance and tax, for example. Others are constant and directly associated with your mileage - fuel. Yet, others again are directly associated but come in lumps - maintenance, tires, ... Deprecation is fuzzy and partially outside of any factor you can control, etc.
lnsru 4y ago
That’s perfect case for a taxi. However I love cars and just playing devil’s advocate here.
- bluGill 4y ago
  The cost of a taxi ride is not affordable if you need to make that type of trip often. Paying $40 for a ride once or twice a year is okay, but if you need to make a weekly trip to the doctor, plus get groceries and go to church on Sunday - a brand new car is now cheaper (a brand new car is very expensive, most people drive older used cars that are a lot cheaper)
rexpress 4y ago
The 'elderly parent to the doctor' case is still an argument for bike infrastructure. The more people choose to travel by bike instead of by car, the more space is available on the roads for those that need motor vehicles.
Steltek 4y ago
Don't be silly. The elderly parent with bad reflexes and even worse eyesight will drive themselves to the doctor in their equally decrepit car. That's what really happens when you reinforce the belief that cars are a necessity because bikes are some extreme hardship.
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  You’re joking but I once took an elderly man from the front entrance of his building to the parking lot in my cab because he couldn’t walk that far with his walker (which wasn’t all that far from the back door) and had to help him get behind the wheel to drive off. Needless to say I waited a bit for him to clear the neighborhood before driving off.
  - Steltek 4y ago
    Oh I'm very much NOT joking! I was stopped at a red light on my bike when I was rear ended by an 83yo. He couldn't judge how far his car was from my bike. He was super angry that I insisted he had to stick around to exchange information because he was going to be late for a doctor's appointment in Brookline. Thankfully it was low speed (he was stopping, he just didn't know where to stop) so all he did was knock me forwards.
    - UncleEntity 4y ago
      83 must be the magic year… Had one back into me at a traffic light, with me honking, and then put it into drive and take off when the light changed. Had to have the cops drag him out of a medical building to get a report and his story went from “no accident” (at the scene) to me rear ending him (on the witness stand contesting his ticket), luckily I was hauling around a passenger who confirmed my side of the story. Still don’t have a clue why he thought it was a good idea to put it into reverse and barely creep backward at a red light with cars all around him.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]