5 ms·

> Most countries in Europe are a lot more restrictive on immigration than the US They are not. I'm an immigrant myself in EU. Know plenty of people that migra

> Most countries in Europe are a lot more restrictive on immigration than the US They are not. I'm an immigrant myself in EU. Know plenty of people that migrated to the US.

nhchris 4y ago
Unless "plenty" is ~100 million, then yes, they are. E.g. Italy has only 4.6% immigrants from outside Europe, and Ukraine has only 1.7% of non-European-origin ethnic groups. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy#Immigration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy#Immigrat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#Ethnic_groups https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#Ethnic...
- kwere 4y ago
  realistically no one would move to italy from a career prospective. Specialized work is paid peanuts, more often than less of juniors of same trade in France or Germany while dead end jobs pay less than peanuts bcs unionized contracts ( every job contract is modeled after union ones) arent renogatiated seriously from 30 years ago. Ukraine instead has like 5K$ GDP/capita, making it less attractive than say Germany Source: i'm italian
- alright_scowl 4y ago
  And yet in most European countries there's a clear path to citizenship. US is a popular destination because people are after money, not because it's good for immigration. Ask for all the H1Bs that risk being deported for being laid off, even after living many years over there.
  - nhchris 4y ago
    Legal clarity and strict limits are not mutually exclusive. Nor do many European politicians pepper their speeches with "nation of immigrants" and "diversity is our strength", and when a mere million refugees came from the Middle East (to be fair, that is on top of all the non-European migrants already in Europe), that was a "crisis", and caused a significant rightward shift in EU politics. For comparison, the US takes in almost 2 million legal immigrants per year (on a population of 333 million vs. EUs 446 million), plus however many illegal ones, and there is nothing like a "sanctuary city" in Europe.
    - alright_scowl 4y ago
      > Nor do many European politicians pepper their speeches with "nation of immigrants" and "diversity is our strength" It will be a chilly snowy day in the hellhole I hail from when I give credence to the platitudes a politician uses to pepper their speech. I know why I picked the EU and not the US as a destination, at least.
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      Taking in a refugees is quite different to taking in a migrant who passes all your immigrations tests. Refugees need more social services, housing, healthcare etc. Also, that number of refugees was on top of normal migration, making comparisons difficult. The EU takes around 2 million immigrants from outside the EU per year as far as I can tell. I don’t know hot many move with the EU, it’s a lot. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Is the measure of restrictive immigration the number of immigrants that made it? You could remove any rules on immigration to the US and I won’t be moving there. Some destinations will be popular and some unpopular whatever the rules. Also, why are you not counting immigration within Europe when looking at European immigration?
  - nhchris 4y ago
    > why are you not counting immigration within Europe when looking at European immigration? That would make about as much sense as counting immigration between different US states. I know it's fashionable to pretend someone immigrating from a neighboring country is the same as from half-way across the world, but it's just not so.
    - alright_scowl 4y ago
      Romanians moving to Germany (as an example) should definitely be counted as immigration. They are still foreign nationals for Germany, with the caveat that due to agreements within the EU they are free to live and work in Germany without any extra bureaucracy. That said it makes EU countries actually a lot less restrictive in terms of immigration than the US. EU member countries are not in anyway way equivalent to US states.
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      Have you been to any many EU countries? I have only been to a few, and the differences between them are massive, comparing them to US states isn’t even vaguely close to accurate. It would be interesting to compare the two most similar EU countries to the two most different US states.
      - nhchris 4y ago
        > Have you been to any many EU countries? I was born and live in one of them, and have been to eleven others.
        4y ago

> Most countries in Europe are a lot more restrictive on immigration than the US They are not. I'm an immigrant myself in EU. Know plenty of people that migrated to the US.

nhchris 4y ago

Unless "plenty" is ~100 million, then yes, they are. E.g. Italy has only 4.6% immigrants from outside Europe, and Ukraine has only 1.7% of non-European-origin ethnic groups. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy#Immigration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Italy#Immigrat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#Ethnic_groups https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#Ethnic...

kwere 4y ago
realistically no one would move to italy from a career prospective. Specialized work is paid peanuts, more often than less of juniors of same trade in France or Germany while dead end jobs pay less than peanuts bcs unionized contracts ( every job contract is modeled after union ones) arent renogatiated seriously from 30 years ago. Ukraine instead has like 5K$ GDP/capita, making it less attractive than say Germany Source: i'm italian
alright_scowl 4y ago
And yet in most European countries there's a clear path to citizenship. US is a popular destination because people are after money, not because it's good for immigration. Ask for all the H1Bs that risk being deported for being laid off, even after living many years over there.
- nhchris 4y ago
  Legal clarity and strict limits are not mutually exclusive. Nor do many European politicians pepper their speeches with "nation of immigrants" and "diversity is our strength", and when a mere million refugees came from the Middle East (to be fair, that is on top of all the non-European migrants already in Europe), that was a "crisis", and caused a significant rightward shift in EU politics. For comparison, the US takes in almost 2 million legal immigrants per year (on a population of 333 million vs. EUs 446 million), plus however many illegal ones, and there is nothing like a "sanctuary city" in Europe.
  - alright_scowl 4y ago
    > Nor do many European politicians pepper their speeches with "nation of immigrants" and "diversity is our strength" It will be a chilly snowy day in the hellhole I hail from when I give credence to the platitudes a politician uses to pepper their speech. I know why I picked the EU and not the US as a destination, at least.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    Taking in a refugees is quite different to taking in a migrant who passes all your immigrations tests. Refugees need more social services, housing, healthcare etc. Also, that number of refugees was on top of normal migration, making comparisons difficult. The EU takes around 2 million immigrants from outside the EU per year as far as I can tell. I don’t know hot many move with the EU, it’s a lot. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
lostlogin 4y ago
Is the measure of restrictive immigration the number of immigrants that made it? You could remove any rules on immigration to the US and I won’t be moving there. Some destinations will be popular and some unpopular whatever the rules. Also, why are you not counting immigration within Europe when looking at European immigration?
- nhchris 4y ago
  > why are you not counting immigration within Europe when looking at European immigration? That would make about as much sense as counting immigration between different US states. I know it's fashionable to pretend someone immigrating from a neighboring country is the same as from half-way across the world, but it's just not so.
  - alright_scowl 4y ago
    Romanians moving to Germany (as an example) should definitely be counted as immigration. They are still foreign nationals for Germany, with the caveat that due to agreements within the EU they are free to live and work in Germany without any extra bureaucracy. That said it makes EU countries actually a lot less restrictive in terms of immigration than the US. EU member countries are not in anyway way equivalent to US states.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    Have you been to any many EU countries? I have only been to a few, and the differences between them are massive, comparing them to US states isn’t even vaguely close to accurate. It would be interesting to compare the two most similar EU countries to the two most different US states.
    - nhchris 4y ago
      > Have you been to any many EU countries? I was born and live in one of them, and have been to eleven others.
      - 4y ago