3 ms·

I agree, Mozilla has been on a very weird path since then. Not sure Eich would have made a positive difference though. Brave's main claim to fame is that they

by fhd2 4y ago

I agree, Mozilla has been on a very weird path since then. Not sure Eich would have made a positive difference though. Brave's main claim to fame is that they took Chromium and added an ad blocker. At the same time, they dabble(d?) in injecting ads and crypto, to just name the shady things I know about. I suppose there just isn't much money in building a non-compromising browser, and Mozilla is struggling with this pretty publicly.

BrendanEich 4y ago
It seems what you "know about" "injecting ads" comes from malicious claims that you repeat without checking them out carefully. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138152. Why spout off on browsers as a business without doing your own research? I know, it's HN, but it's also 2023. Mozilla seems to be getting more money from Google now (https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-2021-fs-final-1010.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-202..., see also Chair compensation at https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-990-ty21-public-disclosure.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-990...), even though Firefox share per statcounter.com is flat or down (https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-202201-202302 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-2022...). It's possible to make money as an independent browser if you put the user first and deal them in on >= what you make from the gross. That's what Brave does, and we're building out search ads now to do the same. These revshare and payment rails use crypto, no "dabbling".
seanw444 4y ago
Well the whole point was that there wasn't supposed to be any money in building it. That's why Mozilla is a nonprofit (in theory at least). Originally the idea was that enough companies and individuals would donate to support its development as a common interest, because obviously people want a good private browser, right? Now the status quo has shifted to a big corporation making money off of peoples' browsing habits via closed-source components, and then paying the nonprofit to have a consistently worse browser to prevent a full monopoly. Mozilla now is best described as a vassal.
- Laaas 4y ago
  Much in this world would be better if we donated to what ought be a public service. If browser vendors didn't have to chase profits, perhaps they wouldn't be so user-hostile, and the same principle applies to most software I'd say. That we don't have a world where this is possible is in my opinion both a cultural and political failure. What if every person on HN gave 1% of their income to various open source projects they use? What if we made this a cultural norm, and you'd be shamed if you didn't?
  - seanw444 4y ago
    That's my opinion. We need more of a culture of giving back. I dislike proprietary software, but I have no problem paying for software. For example: there are several apps on F-Droid that give you full functionality (even if there is a paywall for those features on the Play Store version), and all they do is say "hey, this took my time to develop, and I'd appreciate if you could throw some bucks my way." I enjoy contributing more than what they'd charge with a paywall in those cases.

by fhd2 4y ago

BrendanEich 4y ago

It seems what you "know about" "injecting ads" comes from malicious claims that you repeat without checking them out carefully. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26138152. Why spout off on browsers as a business without doing your own research? I know, it's HN, but it's also 2023. Mozilla seems to be getting more money from Google now (https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-2021-fs-final-1010.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-202..., see also Chair compensation at https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-990-ty21-public-disclosure.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-990...), even though Firefox share per statcounter.com is flat or down (https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-202201-202302 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-2022...). It's possible to make money as an independent browser if you put the user first and deal them in on >= what you make from the gross. That's what Brave does, and we're building out search ads now to do the same. These revshare and payment rails use crypto, no "dabbling".

seanw444 4y ago

Well the whole point was that there wasn't supposed to be any money in building it. That's why Mozilla is a nonprofit (in theory at least). Originally the idea was that enough companies and individuals would donate to support its development as a common interest, because obviously people want a good private browser, right? Now the status quo has shifted to a big corporation making money off of peoples' browsing habits via closed-source components, and then paying the nonprofit to have a consistently worse browser to prevent a full monopoly. Mozilla now is best described as a vassal.

Laaas 4y ago
Much in this world would be better if we donated to what ought be a public service. If browser vendors didn't have to chase profits, perhaps they wouldn't be so user-hostile, and the same principle applies to most software I'd say. That we don't have a world where this is possible is in my opinion both a cultural and political failure. What if every person on HN gave 1% of their income to various open source projects they use? What if we made this a cultural norm, and you'd be shamed if you didn't?
- seanw444 4y ago
  That's my opinion. We need more of a culture of giving back. I dislike proprietary software, but I have no problem paying for software. For example: there are several apps on F-Droid that give you full functionality (even if there is a paywall for those features on the Play Store version), and all they do is say "hey, this took my time to develop, and I'd appreciate if you could throw some bucks my way." I enjoy contributing more than what they'd charge with a paywall in those cases.