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Interesting article, but they don't link to the data, just suggest that you build the dataset yourself with Google. I'm also not seeing mention of cost of livin
by cianmm 4y ago
Interesting article, but they don't link to the data, just suggest that you build the dataset yourself with Google. I'm also not seeing mention of cost of living.
> For ease of comparison we’ve converted all numbers to USD ($).
That seems a strange choice, given that this is Europe. The target market for this blog post must not be Europeans.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoThankfully (and tragically) the calculation between euro and dollar is very easy now.
- balfirevic 4y agoWhy is that tragical?
- mensetmanusman 4y agoBecause it is due to the war/pandemic effects…
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoIt makes sense to me. It lets you compare against US salaries and standardizes the EU currencies.
- iso1631 4y ago> compare against US salaries But without factoring in cost of living that's surely rather meaningless too
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoCOL varies enormously in the US and yet even LCOL salaries are much higher than in the EU. I don't think COL is that useful when comparing salaries globally.
- hnlmorg 4y agoI don’t think comparing salaries globally is that useful per se. But it’s even less useful if you don’t factor in exchange rates and cost of living.
- ciberado 4y agoAlso, my understanding is that in the US each person must dedicate an important amount of money to receive the health services that are provided in Europe by the administration in many countries.
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoUS companies provide health insurance for their employees.
- bryanrasmussen 4y agonot all and quality varies but generally in the tech sector I suppose they provide good quality as part of the compensation package, which also brings up the fact that generally when discussing compensation one should discuss the total package not just money (although money is generally most important)
- cianmm 4y agoWhile it does let you compare against US salaries, almost all EU countries use the Euro. Certainly all of the ones mentioned in this post do. If you're interested in just a raw number rather than a cost of living weighted number (which this post seems to ignore), converting any stragglers to Euro would have been simplest for European readers. That said though, as I mentioned, I don't think Europeans are the target market for this.
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoWell, since this post includes the UK saying "all the countries in this post use Euros" is plain wrong. I think COL in itself matters far less than people think. COL difference is certainly not proportional to salary difference. I don't think this is specifically for EU readers either. I think it's aimed at a global audience since they use USD and mention US roles as well as their data on EU roles.
- hnlmorg 4y agoYou can’t compare salaries without also comparing cost of living. Which is significantly cheaper in many of the cities listed vs SV. Also there already is a standardised EU currency. It’s even named after the EU: “Euro”.
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoYou realize that companies pay SV-like salaries outside of SV now, right? LCOL US salaries can easily be higher than HCOL EU salaries. This is also exactly the same argument people in the US have tried to make about "SV" salaries vs "normal" salaries. Ex: "making $100k in the Midwest is better than $300k in SV because COL" It's plain wrong in almost all cases (Lower COL doesn't make up for lower salary) and SV vs elsewhere in the US is becoming less and less relevant with remote work.
- hnlmorg 4y agoIt’s not that simple. Sometimes lower cost of living absolutely does make up for a lower salary. Ultimately it comes down to disposable income after your expenses are paid. If your cost of living is significantly lower despite your income decreasing, then your disposable income increases despite your salary decreasing. It’s also why multinational services will often have regional pricing. This phenomena might not be present in the US (I haven’t lived in enough American cities to make a generalisation here) but it’s absolutely true in Europe. > SV vs elsewhere in the US is becoming less and less relevant with remote work. Remote work will be what levels the playing field but we aren’t there yet. Most companies aren’t fully remote. Further more, as weird as it might sound to some on HN, some people do actually enjoy working with colleagues in an office. So it’s very premature to handwave the cost of living with arguments like “because remote work”
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoDude, go on https://levels.fyi https://levels.fyi for 5min and compare US and UK salaries. US ($339k): https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-engineer/levels/e5 https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-... UK ($200k): https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-engineer/levels/e5/locations/united-kingdom https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-... Lower COL does not make up for $139k USD. I've seen this exact conversation happen on /r/cscareerquestions about US salaries an uncountable number of times. COL never makes up for the salary difference on the high end. Maybe for median and below salaries, but never for the top percentiles. E: since you edited in stuff about remote work, I meant in the US. There are a lot of US companies that allow remote work within the US now. I was also talking about SV vs everywhere else in terms of salary difference, not COL. Even with a salary reduction, you're most likely making more than you 'should' in a LCOL area.