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The measures announced are far more ambitious than this article suggests. The one that will cause the most controversy is the State taking over unused housing,

The measures announced are far more ambitious than this article suggests. The one that will cause the most controversy is the State taking over unused housing, making improvements if needed, and then renting the properties (with the money going to the owners after deducting expenses). Yeah, I'm sure that will go over well...

potatototoo99 4y ago
That measure is not in the final list.
- rjtavares 4y ago
  I heard a few hours ago António Costa talking about it on RTP (state television), and it's in this document: https://s3.observador.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/16165400/mais-habitacao-final.pdf https://s3.observador.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/16165400... (as ARRENDAMENTO OBRIGATÓRIO DE CASAS DEVOLUTAS) Do you have any better source for the final list of measures?
luckylion 4y ago
I generally don't like state intervention, and I'd prefer hefty taxes on unused housing (at least where housing is needed, no need to punish empty buildings if there's oversupply), but I'm fine with the idea of curbing speculation in housing that doesn't include intent to actually provide housing.
- rjtavares 4y ago
  I'm fine with additional taxing of those houses, but having the state take over the renovation and renting processes is a recipe for corruption (which, given Portugal's recent history, makes me think it's actually the real purpose of the measure).
  - luckylion 4y ago
    I assume that's already the case, everywhere, isn't it? Germany certainly has that issue, state-owned housing companies have some very nice flat and they're very affordable, but you need to be connected to have a chance to get them. It is what it is, corruption finds its way into everything everywhere.
    - rjtavares 4y ago
      Now imagine the government having the power to do that on every vacant property. Not just state-owned: all private-owned but vacant properties could be forcefully rented.
      - luckylion 4y ago
        There's more chance for corruption, but at some point each connected person needs to rent 4 apartments to fill all the space, which they won't, so it'd likely still be a net-positive effect. And unlike normal nationalization campaigns, it's easy to keep the government from making itself the owner's administrator: just rent out your rental properties. I understand that it's nicer to let them sit empty and wait for prices to double and not deal with renters because rents are a joke compared to price increases, but that's not going to work out. I could live with a different alternative: the government declaring the buildings condemned and rezoning them as non-construction ground. That'll quickly motivate investors to actually put the houses to use.

potatototoo99 4y ago

That measure is not in the final list.

rjtavares 4y ago
I heard a few hours ago António Costa talking about it on RTP (state television), and it's in this document: https://s3.observador.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/16165400/mais-habitacao-final.pdf https://s3.observador.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/16165400... (as ARRENDAMENTO OBRIGATÓRIO DE CASAS DEVOLUTAS) Do you have any better source for the final list of measures?

luckylion 4y ago

I generally don't like state intervention, and I'd prefer hefty taxes on unused housing (at least where housing is needed, no need to punish empty buildings if there's oversupply), but I'm fine with the idea of curbing speculation in housing that doesn't include intent to actually provide housing.

rjtavares 4y ago
I'm fine with additional taxing of those houses, but having the state take over the renovation and renting processes is a recipe for corruption (which, given Portugal's recent history, makes me think it's actually the real purpose of the measure).
- luckylion 4y ago
  I assume that's already the case, everywhere, isn't it? Germany certainly has that issue, state-owned housing companies have some very nice flat and they're very affordable, but you need to be connected to have a chance to get them. It is what it is, corruption finds its way into everything everywhere.
  - rjtavares 4y ago
    Now imagine the government having the power to do that on every vacant property. Not just state-owned: all private-owned but vacant properties could be forcefully rented.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      There's more chance for corruption, but at some point each connected person needs to rent 4 apartments to fill all the space, which they won't, so it'd likely still be a net-positive effect. And unlike normal nationalization campaigns, it's easy to keep the government from making itself the owner's administrator: just rent out your rental properties. I understand that it's nicer to let them sit empty and wait for prices to double and not deal with renters because rents are a joke compared to price increases, but that's not going to work out. I could live with a different alternative: the government declaring the buildings condemned and rezoning them as non-construction ground. That'll quickly motivate investors to actually put the houses to use.