7 ms·

The brain is a closet (2009)

45 points by azefiel 4y ago

steponlego 4y ago
If anybody wants to read a more fleshed out description of this same concept, but without the mental limitation of being stuck in a small closet, they should research the method of loci also popularly known as the 'memory palace.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci
yamrzou 4y ago
The difference is that you can not empty your brain in order to reorganize it. You need to perform an in-place sort.
- pixl97 4y ago
  Also by reorganizing the closet you would be physically changing and modifying the objects into different forms. Nothing touched by recall remains the same.
- euroderf 4y ago
  If I could rely an external system to "empty" my mind, then clean out the cobwebs and build some mental shelves... and then reintroduce those contents... I'd pay for that.
Barrin92 4y ago
I'm not convinced by this closet analogy for subject matter experts. Domain experts tend to have fully integrated, very differentiated and subjective ways to think about what they do. It's not like a pile either but I think more like a network of associations, a mesh. When you hear chess grandmasters talk, they don't go by "the rook is worth 5 and the knight is worth 3 points" or some neat system, they trust on intuition that often brings together particular positions, old games, calculation and so on. Just like an expert programmer doesn't sit there with her copy of the Gang of Four in hand. Experts often don't really think as much as they simply do, and they're process oriented. Which I think is also more important to teach.
- phkahler 4y ago
  >> It's not like a pile either but I think more like a network of associations, a mesh. That's exactly the point. Their knowledge has some organization and structure, it's not just random pile of information. The author is advocating that we help people to organize information so that it is more useful to them. They even go so far as saying to try understanding how the person models other thing to leverage that. In other words, the closet thing is a metaphor, but also can be a starting point.
  - maxrf 4y ago
    isn't the point (of the pile) that you tug on this thing - and it's attached to that, you tug on that... etc - ie: brain associations are more complex than a mesh. I remember tidying up my daughter's room and destroying her ability to find her clothes - she had no place to start...
ag315 4y ago
I think it's an oversimplification to argue that the mind as a whole is like a closet, but I do think memory specifically works a bit in this way--hence the well-established utility of memory palace methods. Giordano Bruno's memory garden idea is something I've been working on, but it does take time to put in place.
- steponlego 4y ago
  Many people wrote about this technique, the earliest known person to describe it was Cicero.
  - nextaccountic 4y ago
    https://artofmemory.com/blog/how-to-build-a-memory-palace/ https://artofmemory.com/blog/how-to-build-a-memory-palace/ says "According to Roman legend, the memory palace technique was invented by Simonides of Ceos about 2,500 years ago" but Cicero died 2065 years ago, so, close enough?
    - steponlego 4y ago
      What's the source of the Roman legend? IIRC it's Cicero.

45 points by azefiel 4y ago

If anybody wants to read a more fleshed out description of this same concept, but without the mental limitation of being stuck in a small closet, they should research the method of loci also popularly known as the 'memory palace.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci

yamrzou 4y ago

The difference is that you can not empty your brain in order to reorganize it. You need to perform an in-place sort.

pixl97 4y ago
Also by reorganizing the closet you would be physically changing and modifying the objects into different forms. Nothing touched by recall remains the same.
euroderf 4y ago
If I could rely an external system to "empty" my mind, then clean out the cobwebs and build some mental shelves... and then reintroduce those contents... I'd pay for that.

Barrin92 4y ago

I'm not convinced by this closet analogy for subject matter experts. Domain experts tend to have fully integrated, very differentiated and subjective ways to think about what they do. It's not like a pile either but I think more like a network of associations, a mesh. When you hear chess grandmasters talk, they don't go by "the rook is worth 5 and the knight is worth 3 points" or some neat system, they trust on intuition that often brings together particular positions, old games, calculation and so on. Just like an expert programmer doesn't sit there with her copy of the Gang of Four in hand. Experts often don't really think as much as they simply do, and they're process oriented. Which I think is also more important to teach.

phkahler 4y ago
>> It's not like a pile either but I think more like a network of associations, a mesh. That's exactly the point. Their knowledge has some organization and structure, it's not just random pile of information. The author is advocating that we help people to organize information so that it is more useful to them. They even go so far as saying to try understanding how the person models other thing to leverage that. In other words, the closet thing is a metaphor, but also can be a starting point.
- maxrf 4y ago
  isn't the point (of the pile) that you tug on this thing - and it's attached to that, you tug on that... etc - ie: brain associations are more complex than a mesh. I remember tidying up my daughter's room and destroying her ability to find her clothes - she had no place to start...

ag315 4y ago

I think it's an oversimplification to argue that the mind as a whole is like a closet, but I do think memory specifically works a bit in this way--hence the well-established utility of memory palace methods. Giordano Bruno's memory garden idea is something I've been working on, but it does take time to put in place.

steponlego 4y ago
Many people wrote about this technique, the earliest known person to describe it was Cicero.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  https://artofmemory.com/blog/how-to-build-a-memory-palace/ https://artofmemory.com/blog/how-to-build-a-memory-palace/ says "According to Roman legend, the memory palace technique was invented by Simonides of Ceos about 2,500 years ago" but Cicero died 2065 years ago, so, close enough?
  - steponlego 4y ago
    What's the source of the Roman legend? IIRC it's Cicero.