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You don’t see a difference between using a paintbrush to paint a painting, and pasting “landscape painting ultra-detailed 4K artstation” into midjourney and get

You don’t see a difference between using a paintbrush to paint a painting, and pasting “landscape painting ultra-detailed 4K artstation” into midjourney and getting an immediate result? I think it’s more like buying a paintbrush that also paints the painting for you. And I’d also have the same opinion about that.

zamadatix 4y ago
A difference? Well yeah, it's a hell of a lot quicker! Just like all tools before it you can lazily conjure a pile of (now shinier than before for the same amount of work) crap or you can put effort into crafting something good with it. "It took a lot more effort than it needed to" isn't what defines whether something is able to have good craftsmanship put in.
pxue 4y ago
Of course there's a difference but at the end of the day, what difference does it make. Shooting a movie on an iphone pro can be as artistically involved as shooting one in black and white on 8mm film.
- anileated 4y ago
  With a phone you can make it arbitrarily more challenging for yourself because if you use raw capture you can take on the work actual film designers and film developers have done for you in case of film, and after all craftsmanship is a lot about overcoming challenges. If you delegate video production to some perfect Stable Diffusion equivalent…
strogonoff 4y ago
First we delegate low-level repetitive mechanics, then we delegate high-level vision and thinking, then there are no more levels left to delegate. If the first one harms motor skill, which we can pretend doesn’t affect the mind much, what does the second one harm?
ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
"pasting “landscape painting ultra-detailed 4K artstation” into midjourney and getting an immediate result?" Try doing that. Getting a good result isn't as easy as you make it out to be.
- dorkwood 4y ago
  You’re right, it does take more than that. I used an abbreviated version of a prompt to illustrate a point. I suppose I could have written “Garden castle, Many flowers, A few roses, clouds, dramatic clouds above, pink, dreamy ultra wide shot, atmospheric, hyper realistic, 8k, epic composition, cinematic, octane render, artstation landscape vista photography by Carr Clifton & Galen Rowell, 16K resolution, Landscape veduta photo by Dustin Lefevre & tdraw, 8k resolution, detailed landscape painting by Ivan Shishkin, DeviantArt, Flickr, rendered in Enscape, Miyazaki, Nausicaa Ghibli, Breath of The Wild, 4k detailed post processing, artstation, rendering by octane, unreal engine --iw 10 --ar 9:16 --no blue”, but it would have ruined the flow of my comment.
  - ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
    It would also diminish your point. Prompt engineering is a real thing now.
    - dorkwood 4y ago
      The point you seem to be arguing is that prompt engineering is comparable in difficulty to picking up a paintbrush and painting a picture. Is that correct? If so, I just don’t think we’re going to find common ground here.
yamtaddle 4y ago
> You don’t see a difference between using a paintbrush to paint a painting, Haha, ew, gross, looks like real work, must be for the plebs. > and pasting “landscape painting ultra-detailed 4K artstation” into midjourney and getting an immediate result? Now you're talking. That's a producer credit! Welcome to really being someone!
Nadya 4y ago
What are your opinions of Yves Klein's series of IKB paintings? Do you have an appreciative understanding of the differences between IKB 79 and IKB 191? Are the differences all that important over opening Microsoft Paint, selecting the bucket tool, changing the fill color to blue, and clicking the canvas? I'm not trolling either. I'm quite bothered by the common argument that "art is effort". Art is not defined by the effort it takes to create and anytime it gets easier (even to a trivial degree) there are always pundits and naysayers. https://everythingcanbe.art/ https://everythingcanbe.art/
- dorkwood 4y ago
  I think we’re talking about different things. You’re asking if these things are still considered art, even if they required no effort. They very well might be. I’m not concerned with that. I’m more concerned with how in love people are with the idea of suddenly being able to paint a picture without needing to learn how to paint a picture. I’d feel the same way about someone who was excited that they could replicate IKB 79 by opening MS Paint, filling the canvas with IK Blue and sending it off to the printers.
  - Nadya 4y ago
    I am quite excited that I can take a photograph of scenery with my camera in the blink of an eye without ever having to learn how to paint. I can even send that photo off to be printed to hang on my wall! E: I misread you so largely removed my post as it delved into the history of what is "art" which isn't really what you were talking about as made clear by your 2nd paragraph. But I feel the point of photography::paintings and what one excitingly sends off to be printed still holds true.

zamadatix 4y ago

A difference? Well yeah, it's a hell of a lot quicker! Just like all tools before it you can lazily conjure a pile of (now shinier than before for the same amount of work) crap or you can put effort into crafting something good with it. "It took a lot more effort than it needed to" isn't what defines whether something is able to have good craftsmanship put in.

pxue 4y ago

Of course there's a difference but at the end of the day, what difference does it make. Shooting a movie on an iphone pro can be as artistically involved as shooting one in black and white on 8mm film.

anileated 4y ago
With a phone you can make it arbitrarily more challenging for yourself because if you use raw capture you can take on the work actual film designers and film developers have done for you in case of film, and after all craftsmanship is a lot about overcoming challenges. If you delegate video production to some perfect Stable Diffusion equivalent…

strogonoff 4y ago

First we delegate low-level repetitive mechanics, then we delegate high-level vision and thinking, then there are no more levels left to delegate. If the first one harms motor skill, which we can pretend doesn’t affect the mind much, what does the second one harm?

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago

"pasting “landscape painting ultra-detailed 4K artstation” into midjourney and getting an immediate result?" Try doing that. Getting a good result isn't as easy as you make it out to be.

dorkwood 4y ago
You’re right, it does take more than that. I used an abbreviated version of a prompt to illustrate a point. I suppose I could have written “Garden castle, Many flowers, A few roses, clouds, dramatic clouds above, pink, dreamy ultra wide shot, atmospheric, hyper realistic, 8k, epic composition, cinematic, octane render, artstation landscape vista photography by Carr Clifton & Galen Rowell, 16K resolution, Landscape veduta photo by Dustin Lefevre & tdraw, 8k resolution, detailed landscape painting by Ivan Shishkin, DeviantArt, Flickr, rendered in Enscape, Miyazaki, Nausicaa Ghibli, Breath of The Wild, 4k detailed post processing, artstation, rendering by octane, unreal engine --iw 10 --ar 9:16 --no blue”, but it would have ruined the flow of my comment.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
  It would also diminish your point. Prompt engineering is a real thing now.
  - dorkwood 4y ago
    The point you seem to be arguing is that prompt engineering is comparable in difficulty to picking up a paintbrush and painting a picture. Is that correct? If so, I just don’t think we’re going to find common ground here.

yamtaddle 4y ago

> You don’t see a difference between using a paintbrush to paint a painting, Haha, ew, gross, looks like real work, must be for the plebs. > and pasting “landscape painting ultra-detailed 4K artstation” into midjourney and getting an immediate result? Now you're talking. That's a producer credit! Welcome to really being someone!

Nadya 4y ago

What are your opinions of Yves Klein's series of IKB paintings? Do you have an appreciative understanding of the differences between IKB 79 and IKB 191? Are the differences all that important over opening Microsoft Paint, selecting the bucket tool, changing the fill color to blue, and clicking the canvas? I'm not trolling either. I'm quite bothered by the common argument that "art is effort". Art is not defined by the effort it takes to create and anytime it gets easier (even to a trivial degree) there are always pundits and naysayers. https://everythingcanbe.art/ https://everythingcanbe.art/

dorkwood 4y ago
I think we’re talking about different things. You’re asking if these things are still considered art, even if they required no effort. They very well might be. I’m not concerned with that. I’m more concerned with how in love people are with the idea of suddenly being able to paint a picture without needing to learn how to paint a picture. I’d feel the same way about someone who was excited that they could replicate IKB 79 by opening MS Paint, filling the canvas with IK Blue and sending it off to the printers.
- Nadya 4y ago
  I am quite excited that I can take a photograph of scenery with my camera in the blink of an eye without ever having to learn how to paint. I can even send that photo off to be printed to hang on my wall! E: I misread you so largely removed my post as it delved into the history of what is "art" which isn't really what you were talking about as made clear by your 2nd paragraph. But I feel the point of photography::paintings and what one excitingly sends off to be printed still holds true.