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The CIA narrative on the "Syria gas attacks" have been roundly debunked by the meticulous reporting of Aaron Mate (and others). The even more absurd "Skripal p

The CIA narrative on the "Syria gas attacks" have been roundly debunked by the meticulous reporting of Aaron Mate (and others). The even more absurd "Skripal poisoning" incident has completely fallen apart upon only the barest scrutiny. It is sad and disturbing these these completely debunked narratives are still being touted by people as credible. Anyone (rightfully) calling for skepticism and scrutiny into Hersch's account of the pipeline bombing should, at the very least, have the same skepticism towards CIA/US government claims that are even flimsier.

wasdwasdwasd 4y ago
Skripal poisoning denial is so good man, I've never heard that one before. Especially after one of the guys accused turned out to be a Hero of Russian Federation under a fake name. Found a ria news article with almost exact same wording you used but in russian. Anyway I guess you would say Navalny, Litvinenko were fakes as well. 3% of russians believe in skripal thing, you are preaching to the choir, the real skeptics in russia are the ones saying it is real. "same skepticism towards CIA/US government" Yeah americans do that all the time and definitely do it the most, but that is also because they live there. maybe its time to take a look in the mirror and start focusing on what your country is doing Stanislav Petrov.
astrange 4y ago
Aaron Maté is a ridiculous tankie who's currently claiming the US is trying to coup Hungary. (Why as a leftist he's supporting the current Hungary government is unclear, but being a tankie requires you to start with the US being bad and work the rest out from there.)
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  What's the word that requires someone to start with the US being good and working out the rest from there? Samantha Powers' recent trip to Hungary and her statements about USAID’s "newly launched work to help support democracy in Central Europe, including by bolstering civil society and helping independent media thrive and build new audiences" exactly mirrors the rhetoric from what we pulled in Ukraine in 2014 and the rest of the "color revolutions". >Why as a leftist he's supporting the current Hungary government is unclear Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that even if you don't like a foreign government, that you still don't have the right to replace it (whether through invasion or subversion) with a government you favor? It is possible to be both critical of the Hungarian government and also to take the position that the US should not be in the game of choosing who leads Hungary. Believing that we should stay out of the internal politics of foreign countries does not equate to apologizing or making excuses for those countries. It is especially ironic that those who insist that we act as policeman of the world and decide who is fit to run foreign countries also cry loudest about "foreign interference" in our own elections.
- einpoklum 4y ago
  "Ridiculous" and "Tankie" are non-specific characterizations which mostly indicate whether or not you like a person or their opinions. But in the same vein, let us recall Mate has been awarded the Ithaca College Journalism School's Izzy award (which is considered prestigious). Mate, specifically, has a record of reliable fact-based investigative and integrational reporting on subjects such as "Russia-gate" (i.e. the various claims regarding Russian involvement in 2016 US elections and the candidates' campaigns), as well as the alleged chemical attack in Douma, Syria in 2018 and the coverup within the OPCW of the investigation of that attack. I don't know about the Hungary situation and have not read Mate's work on that; but links would be appreciated.
  - astrange 4y ago
    > But in the same vein, let us recall Mate has been awarded the Ithaca College Journalism School's Izzy award (which is considered prestigious). Noam Chomsky is also quite decorated but that doesn't stop them both from denying war crimes like Cambodia and Syria. If you're claiming Russia-Trump coordination and Skripal didn't happen, that's because you're a tankie who can never say Russia has done anything bad, because you think they're secretly the USSR and are going to bring back communism. Bit sad since they're a fascist state. ("Anti-imperialists" are also rather bad at opposing Chinese imperialism.) > I don't know about the Hungary situation and have not read Mate's work on that; but links would be appreciated. Doing it right now. https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907 https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907
    - einpoklum 4y ago
      > https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907 https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907 That is a tweet about a suspicion, not a news article with a concrete claim. Also, USAID is indeed widely perceived as an arm of the US government, or the CIA more specifically, for political intervention in foreign countries. And I would be pretty worried if Samantha Power were to land in my country and start driving some "locally-driven" initiatives. > that's because you're a tankie This "tankie" thinks the Russian regime has done and does many bad things, like killing civilians, suppressing speech and organization, forcing a military draft, maintaining a social order of massive exploitation of workers by private proprietors, etc. It's just that most of those bad things don't happen to be the bad things which the US is accusing Russia of - and the latter are often just fanciful tales or more elaborate fabrication.

wasdwasdwasd 4y ago

Skripal poisoning denial is so good man, I've never heard that one before. Especially after one of the guys accused turned out to be a Hero of Russian Federation under a fake name. Found a ria news article with almost exact same wording you used but in russian. Anyway I guess you would say Navalny, Litvinenko were fakes as well. 3% of russians believe in skripal thing, you are preaching to the choir, the real skeptics in russia are the ones saying it is real. "same skepticism towards CIA/US government" Yeah americans do that all the time and definitely do it the most, but that is also because they live there. maybe its time to take a look in the mirror and start focusing on what your country is doing Stanislav Petrov.

astrange 4y ago

Aaron Maté is a ridiculous tankie who's currently claiming the US is trying to coup Hungary. (Why as a leftist he's supporting the current Hungary government is unclear, but being a tankie requires you to start with the US being bad and work the rest out from there.)

StanislavPetrov 4y ago
What's the word that requires someone to start with the US being good and working out the rest from there? Samantha Powers' recent trip to Hungary and her statements about USAID’s "newly launched work to help support democracy in Central Europe, including by bolstering civil society and helping independent media thrive and build new audiences" exactly mirrors the rhetoric from what we pulled in Ukraine in 2014 and the rest of the "color revolutions". >Why as a leftist he's supporting the current Hungary government is unclear Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that even if you don't like a foreign government, that you still don't have the right to replace it (whether through invasion or subversion) with a government you favor? It is possible to be both critical of the Hungarian government and also to take the position that the US should not be in the game of choosing who leads Hungary. Believing that we should stay out of the internal politics of foreign countries does not equate to apologizing or making excuses for those countries. It is especially ironic that those who insist that we act as policeman of the world and decide who is fit to run foreign countries also cry loudest about "foreign interference" in our own elections.
einpoklum 4y ago
"Ridiculous" and "Tankie" are non-specific characterizations which mostly indicate whether or not you like a person or their opinions. But in the same vein, let us recall Mate has been awarded the Ithaca College Journalism School's Izzy award (which is considered prestigious). Mate, specifically, has a record of reliable fact-based investigative and integrational reporting on subjects such as "Russia-gate" (i.e. the various claims regarding Russian involvement in 2016 US elections and the candidates' campaigns), as well as the alleged chemical attack in Douma, Syria in 2018 and the coverup within the OPCW of the investigation of that attack. I don't know about the Hungary situation and have not read Mate's work on that; but links would be appreciated.
- astrange 4y ago
  > But in the same vein, let us recall Mate has been awarded the Ithaca College Journalism School's Izzy award (which is considered prestigious). Noam Chomsky is also quite decorated but that doesn't stop them both from denying war crimes like Cambodia and Syria. If you're claiming Russia-Trump coordination and Skripal didn't happen, that's because you're a tankie who can never say Russia has done anything bad, because you think they're secretly the USSR and are going to bring back communism. Bit sad since they're a fascist state. ("Anti-imperialists" are also rather bad at opposing Chinese imperialism.) > I don't know about the Hungary situation and have not read Mate's work on that; but links would be appreciated. Doing it right now. https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907 https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907
  - einpoklum 4y ago
    > https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907 https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1625634526947835907 That is a tweet about a suspicion, not a news article with a concrete claim. Also, USAID is indeed widely perceived as an arm of the US government, or the CIA more specifically, for political intervention in foreign countries. And I would be pretty worried if Samantha Power were to land in my country and start driving some "locally-driven" initiatives. > that's because you're a tankie This "tankie" thinks the Russian regime has done and does many bad things, like killing civilians, suppressing speech and organization, forcing a military draft, maintaining a social order of massive exploitation of workers by private proprietors, etc. It's just that most of those bad things don't happen to be the bad things which the US is accusing Russia of - and the latter are often just fanciful tales or more elaborate fabrication.