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> The problem isn't that bots will replace humans. The problem is that humans are acting like bots. Yikes that really hits home. Since the dawn of computers, p

> The problem isn't that bots will replace humans. The problem is that humans are acting like bots. Yikes that really hits home. Since the dawn of computers, people have been handing over more and more of their thinking to processes and machines, becoming more robotic. Or like how the factory line changes the way people think, reduces their creativity. Maybe now that the robots are getting scarily good, I can hope that humans will go back to acting like humans again.

Oxidation 4y ago
Reminds me of: > 1960's Futurists: Automation will free mankind from meaningless tedium to focus on creative pursuits only human beings can master. > 2020's Techbros: We're building AI to write all your books, music, and TV so you can focus on the meaningless tedium of your cubicle job. Except instead of "cubicle job" it's also "algorithm-pleasing #content drudgery". https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2500506-ai-art https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2500506-ai-art
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
My first experience of this was when I got into an argument with a cashier. I remember it was something absurd and kafkesque, I returned a product, and they could only return the money on the card I used to pay for it, but that card has expired. I was exasperated "Here is my ID, its the same bank account, by the same bank. Use y common sence!" "But there is message sating it has to be the same card" "it no longer exists, so how do I get the money back now?" "There is no button for that" At that moment, I thought, this person can only do what the computer says. The Developer didn't program the computer. The develiper programmed the person that will use the computer.
- valzam 4y ago
  I know this is besides the point but you can normally get refunds on expired cards. The card isn't valid for payments anymore but Visa/MC definitely keeps a record of it around. If it's with the same bank it shouldn't be an issue at all.
  - ux-app 4y ago
    also, I don't think the same card rule is actually enforced by the system. I've always just nodded along and presented whatever card I had with me and returns always went through without an issue.
- jxramos 4y ago
  smart systems will permit reimbursement via plain cash or gift card. I had this experience once at a grocery store that sold some stale food at the deli. I returned with the wrong receipt from the same day and the customer service folk just issued a gift card. I think more accurately the developer constrained the end user of the system.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Usually the cause of this is that someone has discovered some contrived scam or illicit activity which makes use of a mechanism like this combined with an employee who isn’t wise to it. So companies employ a computer system which doesn’t allow employees to make mistakes so they don’t have to be educated on avoiding social engineering which is largely impossible.
- tpmoney 4y ago
  I'm slowly coming around to the idea that if at any point your organization gets so big that the answer "the system won't let me do that" is the final answer to a problem, you are too big. I used to write management software for a boutique service, and whenever something came up that ultimately needed to be corrected, but there wasn't a way to do that in the system UI it just took walking back to the IT department to get us to correct the issues manually, and then write up a ticket to fix it going forward. There was never a "the system won't let me do that" moment for something that should actually be doable. By comparison, some years later after that company had gone out of business, I was in a big box version of the same service and we ran into a problem that was the equivalent of "accidentally closed this ticket, need to re-open". The cashier could see that it was a problem, and needed to be fixed. The supervisor could see it was a problem and needed to be fixed. The store manager could see it was a problem and needed to be fixed. And it was unfixable because there was no way to do it in the system and no system developers reachable by mere mortals.
- linkjuice4all 4y ago
  This isn't unintentional. Companies were losing money or being used for laundering/fencing via fraudulent returns. Preventing your cashiers from being able to return cash or load up someone else's credit card is just a cheaper way than hoping your cashiers aren't getting scammed.
gmuslera 4y ago
It's not just like that. The process of creation (at least for some fields) has becoming formulaic, something is succeeding? then keep doing it, do some minimal variation or remix existing things. Put those existing pieces together, change names, be sure to include this factor, do this before that and so on. When "creation" becomes routine, then you are acting like a bot, the 1% inspiration and 99% transpiration is turned into 100% transpiration (or much less because modern tools helps with composing and writing). When creation is having a idea and then flesh it with some procedural, repetitive work, then you are not doing a lot more of what this kind of tools might be able to do, just hand it the idea and let it produce the fleshed out product. You can still chop a tree with an axe for the joy of it, but we have a cheap chainsaw available for use too.
pixl97 4y ago
People behave like bots in systems that demand they behave like bots. The massive chain stores that people are working for don't want deviance, so they design systems that punish any wandering from the script that their users attempt to present. Don't see where better robots is going to fix that.
- breckenedge 4y ago
  I don’t know if it will, but maybe CashierGPT will ultimately uncover the folly in the tendency for humans to act more robot like.
yamtaddle 4y ago
> Yikes that really hits home. Since the dawn of computers, people have been handing over more and more of their thinking to processes and machines, becoming more robotic. One of the major motifs of Chaplin's Modern Times. It was released in 1936. It's also, um, kinda something Karl Marx was concerned about. So. Here's a famous sequence from the film, in which Chaplin's character is volun-told to try out a new efficiency-improving worker lunch machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwahG1s4dqI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwahG1s4dqI

Oxidation 4y ago

Reminds me of: > 1960's Futurists: Automation will free mankind from meaningless tedium to focus on creative pursuits only human beings can master. > 2020's Techbros: We're building AI to write all your books, music, and TV so you can focus on the meaningless tedium of your cubicle job. Except instead of "cubicle job" it's also "algorithm-pleasing #content drudgery". https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2500506-ai-art https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2500506-ai-art

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

My first experience of this was when I got into an argument with a cashier. I remember it was something absurd and kafkesque, I returned a product, and they could only return the money on the card I used to pay for it, but that card has expired. I was exasperated "Here is my ID, its the same bank account, by the same bank. Use y common sence!" "But there is message sating it has to be the same card" "it no longer exists, so how do I get the money back now?" "There is no button for that" At that moment, I thought, this person can only do what the computer says. The Developer didn't program the computer. The develiper programmed the person that will use the computer.

valzam 4y ago
I know this is besides the point but you can normally get refunds on expired cards. The card isn't valid for payments anymore but Visa/MC definitely keeps a record of it around. If it's with the same bank it shouldn't be an issue at all.
- ux-app 4y ago
  also, I don't think the same card rule is actually enforced by the system. I've always just nodded along and presented whatever card I had with me and returns always went through without an issue.
jxramos 4y ago
smart systems will permit reimbursement via plain cash or gift card. I had this experience once at a grocery store that sold some stale food at the deli. I returned with the wrong receipt from the same day and the customer service folk just issued a gift card. I think more accurately the developer constrained the end user of the system.
Gigachad 4y ago
Usually the cause of this is that someone has discovered some contrived scam or illicit activity which makes use of a mechanism like this combined with an employee who isn’t wise to it. So companies employ a computer system which doesn’t allow employees to make mistakes so they don’t have to be educated on avoiding social engineering which is largely impossible.
tpmoney 4y ago
I'm slowly coming around to the idea that if at any point your organization gets so big that the answer "the system won't let me do that" is the final answer to a problem, you are too big. I used to write management software for a boutique service, and whenever something came up that ultimately needed to be corrected, but there wasn't a way to do that in the system UI it just took walking back to the IT department to get us to correct the issues manually, and then write up a ticket to fix it going forward. There was never a "the system won't let me do that" moment for something that should actually be doable. By comparison, some years later after that company had gone out of business, I was in a big box version of the same service and we ran into a problem that was the equivalent of "accidentally closed this ticket, need to re-open". The cashier could see that it was a problem, and needed to be fixed. The supervisor could see it was a problem and needed to be fixed. The store manager could see it was a problem and needed to be fixed. And it was unfixable because there was no way to do it in the system and no system developers reachable by mere mortals.
linkjuice4all 4y ago
This isn't unintentional. Companies were losing money or being used for laundering/fencing via fraudulent returns. Preventing your cashiers from being able to return cash or load up someone else's credit card is just a cheaper way than hoping your cashiers aren't getting scammed.

gmuslera 4y ago

It's not just like that. The process of creation (at least for some fields) has becoming formulaic, something is succeeding? then keep doing it, do some minimal variation or remix existing things. Put those existing pieces together, change names, be sure to include this factor, do this before that and so on. When "creation" becomes routine, then you are acting like a bot, the 1% inspiration and 99% transpiration is turned into 100% transpiration (or much less because modern tools helps with composing and writing). When creation is having a idea and then flesh it with some procedural, repetitive work, then you are not doing a lot more of what this kind of tools might be able to do, just hand it the idea and let it produce the fleshed out product. You can still chop a tree with an axe for the joy of it, but we have a cheap chainsaw available for use too.

pixl97 4y ago

People behave like bots in systems that demand they behave like bots. The massive chain stores that people are working for don't want deviance, so they design systems that punish any wandering from the script that their users attempt to present. Don't see where better robots is going to fix that.

breckenedge 4y ago
I don’t know if it will, but maybe CashierGPT will ultimately uncover the folly in the tendency for humans to act more robot like.

yamtaddle 4y ago

> Yikes that really hits home. Since the dawn of computers, people have been handing over more and more of their thinking to processes and machines, becoming more robotic. One of the major motifs of Chaplin's Modern Times. It was released in 1936. It's also, um, kinda something Karl Marx was concerned about. So. Here's a famous sequence from the film, in which Chaplin's character is volun-told to try out a new efficiency-improving worker lunch machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwahG1s4dqI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwahG1s4dqI