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The appeal of JavaScript when it was invented was its immediacy. No longer did you have to go through an edit-compile-debug loop, as with Java, or even an edit-

The appeal of JavaScript when it was invented was its immediacy. No longer did you have to go through an edit-compile-debug loop, as with Java, or even an edit-upload-debug loop as with a Perl script, to see the changes you made to your web-based application. You could just mash reload on your browser and Bob's your uncle! The JavaScript community, in all its wisdom, reinvented edit-compile-debug loops for its immediate, dynamic language and I'm still assmad about it. So assmad that I, too, forgo all that shit when working on personal projects. (The enterprise fucking loves React and Vue. Can't avoid it at work.)

dgb23 4y ago
A thing that I liked when I started out was the fact that you could actually read all of the JavaScript on web pages. You found something interesting? Just fetch the source or open your dev tools (firebug!) and look at the code. There's probably merit in minification and compressing code though. But for the types of projects OP is talking about it's going to be single digit KB of JS anyways.
theteapot 4y ago
> The appeal of JavaScript when it was invented was its immediacy. You can still do that. Nothing has changed. It's probably gotten even easier. Have fun implementing a complex UI without some sort of component Framework though.
- spankalee 4y ago
  You can easily build complex UIs without a framework. Chrome DevTools, Chrome OS, Photoshop, Firefox and other very complex apps have been built with web components.
  - textninja 4y ago
    Web Components aren’t an alternative to React so much as a complementary technology. Yes, you can build UIs without a reactive framework but it will involve compromises in expressivity, code organization, and whatever the Greenspun equivalent is for React.
    - spankalee 4y ago
      Web components do not imply a lack of reactivity. JavaScript accessors, observed attributes, and a declarative template library give you as much reactivity as React. Photoshop and Chrome are built with reactive web components.
  - theteapot 4y ago
    Firefox was built with web components? Whaaaat?
    - cxr 4y ago
      The precursor to Web Components was XBL (NB: only ever implemented in Gecko), which was used extensively in the Firefox UI. (The Firefox product consists of literally hundreds of thousands of lines of JS powering the app UI—and many of its background components.) Gecko was doing Electron-style apps before Electron (or Chrome and JITted JS engines) ever existed.
- xigoi 4y ago
  There are component frameworks that don't require a build step.

dgb23 4y ago

A thing that I liked when I started out was the fact that you could actually read all of the JavaScript on web pages. You found something interesting? Just fetch the source or open your dev tools (firebug!) and look at the code. There's probably merit in minification and compressing code though. But for the types of projects OP is talking about it's going to be single digit KB of JS anyways.

theteapot 4y ago

> The appeal of JavaScript when it was invented was its immediacy. You can still do that. Nothing has changed. It's probably gotten even easier. Have fun implementing a complex UI without some sort of component Framework though.

spankalee 4y ago
You can easily build complex UIs without a framework. Chrome DevTools, Chrome OS, Photoshop, Firefox and other very complex apps have been built with web components.
- textninja 4y ago
  Web Components aren’t an alternative to React so much as a complementary technology. Yes, you can build UIs without a reactive framework but it will involve compromises in expressivity, code organization, and whatever the Greenspun equivalent is for React.
  - spankalee 4y ago
    Web components do not imply a lack of reactivity. JavaScript accessors, observed attributes, and a declarative template library give you as much reactivity as React. Photoshop and Chrome are built with reactive web components.
- theteapot 4y ago
  Firefox was built with web components? Whaaaat?
  - cxr 4y ago
    The precursor to Web Components was XBL (NB: only ever implemented in Gecko), which was used extensively in the Firefox UI. (The Firefox product consists of literally hundreds of thousands of lines of JS powering the app UI—and many of its background components.) Gecko was doing Electron-style apps before Electron (or Chrome and JITted JS engines) ever existed.
xigoi 4y ago
There are component frameworks that don't require a build step.