16 ms·

I did a search to check the history of this claim, but maybe I wasn’t searching for the right thing. Would you mind sharing a link?

jai_ 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-family_zoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-family_zoning It's the first sentence in the History section
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  I admittedly rolled my eyes at the WP link. To atone for this, I’ve copy and pasted the relevant references from that line in the History section: [1] Baldassari, Erin; Solomon, Molly (October 5, 2020). "The Racist History of Single-Family Home Zoning". NPR. Archived from the original on November 14, 2020. https://web.archive.org/web/20201114004918/https://www.kqed.org/news/11840548/the-racist-history-of-single-family-home-zoning https://web.archive.org/web/20201114004918/https://www.kqed.... [3] Hansen, Louis (March 1, 2021). "Is this the end of single-family zoning in the Bay Area? San Jose, Berkeley, other cities consider sweeping changes". San Jose Mercury News. https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/01/is-this-the-end-of-single-family-zoning-in-the-bay-area/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/01/is-this-the-end-of-si... [4] Ruggiero, Angela (February 24, 2021). "Berkeley to end single-family residential zoning, citing racist ties". San Jose Mercury News. https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/24/berkeley-to-end-single-family-residential-zoning-citing-racist-ties/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/24/berkeley-to-end-singl... [5] Yelimeli, Supriya (February 24, 2021). "Berkeley denounces racist history of single-family zoning, begins 2-year process to change general plan - Council unanimously approved a resolution that will work toward banning single-family zoning". Berkeleyside. https://web.archive.org/web/20210301140957/https://www.berkeleyside.com/2021/02/24/berkeley-denounces-racist-history-of-single-family-zoning-begins-2-year-process-to-change-general-plan https://web.archive.org/web/20210301140957/https://www.berke... [8] Baldassari, Erin (March 13, 2021). "Facing Housing Crunch, California Cities Rethink Single-Family Neighborhoods". NPR. Archived from the original on March 31, 2021. https://web.archive.org/web/20210331194917/https://www.npr.org/2021/03/13/973770308/facing-housing-crunch-california-cities-rethink-single-family-neighborhoods https://web.archive.org/web/20210331194917/https://www.npr.o...
  - Cardinal7167 4y ago
    Why did you roll your eyes at it if it provided exactly the correct type of referential value it’s supposed to?
    - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
      Well because I had to click thru WP itself. Also, as a sibling comment put it, it does weird me out that all cited sources are from such a limited pool.
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    Accurate or not, I hate that all of these references are from one 6-month regional news cycle. They may as well be 1 citation, rather than 5. The excess just makes the inclusion of claim look more motivated by political investment than a desire to be informative.
    - stonogo 4y ago
      I hate that people's instinct is to play 4D chess with the intent of some random Wiki editor instead of even glancing at the data contained in the references. Here are some aged references for your discerning palate: Density Zoning and Class Segregation in U.S. Metropolitan Areas (2010) https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1540-6237.2010.00724.x https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1540-6237.2010.00724.x Distributive politics, ward representation, and the spread of zoning (1993) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01047991 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01047991 Urban Land Developers and the Origins of Zoning Laws: The Case of Berkeley (1986) https://escholarship.org/uc/item/26b8d8zh https://escholarship.org/uc/item/26b8d8zh Fifty Years of Zoning (1966) https://www.jstor.org/stable/25723800 https://www.jstor.org/stable/25723800
- edgyquant 4y ago
  This disputes the claim it originated in SF and the reasons listed. Odd that Wikipedia is centered on SF and its claim is backed up by (several experts believe.) Looks to me like another example of Wikipedia pushing a narrative and pretending it’s fact. https://economics21.org/history-zoning-america-flexible-housing-approach https://economics21.org/history-zoning-america-flexible-hous...
  - enragedcacti 4y ago
    Zoning and SFH zoning are aren't the same thing, and wikipedia concurs with your article w.r.t. early US zoning policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#United_States Looks to me like another example of HN guy pushing a narrative and pretending it’s fact. Or maybe someone just made a mistake and a more charitable reading would show that there is perhaps not a conspiracy going on but instead just a misunderstanding.
shkkmo 4y ago
If you want something more rigourous than a wikipedia article, that article's oldest source is the 2020 NPR article which links to this paper: http://www.schoolinfosystem.org/pdf/2014/06/04SegregationinCA24-2.pdf http://www.schoolinfosystem.org/pdf/2014/06/04SegregationinC... TLDR: the real estate developer that founded Claremont (Mason-McDuffie Co spearheaded by Duncan McDuffie) imposed conditions in its titles that explicitly bared non-whites and prohibited commercial enterprises. However, those title conditions couldn't control neighboring areas, so McDuffie pushed to get zoning laws passed that were explicitly inspired by anti-chinese laundry regulations in LA. The Berkley regulation was "expedited" to prevent a "negro dance hall" from opening. To me, the existence of the anti-commercial provisions in the McDuffie title restrictions in addition to explicit racial exclusions indicates that racial exclusion was not the only motivating factor in adopting single family zoning laws. However, the context and immediate usage does make it pretty clear that racial exclusion was a significant part of the motivation.
nemo44x 4y ago
No it’s just completely untrue. This is a common tactic today to say something was created for <racist|sexist|homophobic> purposes so the entire concept is bad naturally. See how activists say policing was invented to catch slaves or some ridiculous claim. There’s a bunch of others.
- stonogo 4y ago
  No, it's completey true. The first businesses affected by Berkeley residential zoning were Chinese and Japanese laundries (c.f. Ordninance 575-NS). Another zoning ordinance was passed to block a "negro dance hall." See Pollard's "Outline of the Law of Zoning in the United States," and Paul Ong "An Ethnic Trade: The Chinese Laundries in Early California." (Journal of Ethnic Studies, Winter 1981)
- astrange 4y ago
  I said literally and I meant literally. You can just look up the Berkeley city council meeting minutes! That's why they said they were doing it!
  - klipt 4y ago
    But are you sure Berkeley was the first place in the world to create a residential only zoning? If not, they don't deserve the inventor label.
    - pwinnski 4y ago
      Okay, they didn't invent racist policies that persist to this day, they just furthered their racist goals by using existing policies that persist to this day. Better?
- gowld 4y ago
  It's a shame that our national history is ridiculous.
- pwinnski 4y ago
  Yes, it is absolutely ridiculous that slave patrols existed and formed the basis for later police departments in the south. It is also ridiculous that labor-busting squads existed in the north, which formed the basis for later police departments in the north. The history is there, it is what it is, as ridiculous as that is. You might argue that modern police have far outgrown their origins, and then it would be up to readers to decide which whether your claim is also ridiculous, given how many police departments generally exhibit qualities consonant with their origins.
wnissen 4y ago
If you have an interest, the most comprehensive book I'm aware of is "Zoned in the USA: The Origins and Implications of American Land-Use Regulation" by Sonia Hirt. Cornell University Press. 2014. ISBN 978-0-8014-5305-2. She's the one quoted in the LA Times article: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-01-19/single-family-zoning-us https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-01-19/single-fam... Full disclosure, I was so impressed with Prof. Hirt's book that I wrote her Wikipedia page.
- astrange 4y ago
  Also The Color of Law: https://www.epi.org/publication/the-color-of-law-a-forgotten-history-of-how-our-government-segregated-america/ https://www.epi.org/publication/the-color-of-law-a-forgotten...

jai_ 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-family_zoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-family_zoning It's the first sentence in the History section

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
I admittedly rolled my eyes at the WP link. To atone for this, I’ve copy and pasted the relevant references from that line in the History section: [1] Baldassari, Erin; Solomon, Molly (October 5, 2020). "The Racist History of Single-Family Home Zoning". NPR. Archived from the original on November 14, 2020. https://web.archive.org/web/20201114004918/https://www.kqed.org/news/11840548/the-racist-history-of-single-family-home-zoning https://web.archive.org/web/20201114004918/https://www.kqed.... [3] Hansen, Louis (March 1, 2021). "Is this the end of single-family zoning in the Bay Area? San Jose, Berkeley, other cities consider sweeping changes". San Jose Mercury News. https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/01/is-this-the-end-of-single-family-zoning-in-the-bay-area/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/01/is-this-the-end-of-si... [4] Ruggiero, Angela (February 24, 2021). "Berkeley to end single-family residential zoning, citing racist ties". San Jose Mercury News. https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/24/berkeley-to-end-single-family-residential-zoning-citing-racist-ties/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/24/berkeley-to-end-singl... [5] Yelimeli, Supriya (February 24, 2021). "Berkeley denounces racist history of single-family zoning, begins 2-year process to change general plan - Council unanimously approved a resolution that will work toward banning single-family zoning". Berkeleyside. https://web.archive.org/web/20210301140957/https://www.berkeleyside.com/2021/02/24/berkeley-denounces-racist-history-of-single-family-zoning-begins-2-year-process-to-change-general-plan https://web.archive.org/web/20210301140957/https://www.berke... [8] Baldassari, Erin (March 13, 2021). "Facing Housing Crunch, California Cities Rethink Single-Family Neighborhoods". NPR. Archived from the original on March 31, 2021. https://web.archive.org/web/20210331194917/https://www.npr.org/2021/03/13/973770308/facing-housing-crunch-california-cities-rethink-single-family-neighborhoods https://web.archive.org/web/20210331194917/https://www.npr.o...
- Cardinal7167 4y ago
  Why did you roll your eyes at it if it provided exactly the correct type of referential value it’s supposed to?
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    Well because I had to click thru WP itself. Also, as a sibling comment put it, it does weird me out that all cited sources are from such a limited pool.
- swatcoder 4y ago
  Accurate or not, I hate that all of these references are from one 6-month regional news cycle. They may as well be 1 citation, rather than 5. The excess just makes the inclusion of claim look more motivated by political investment than a desire to be informative.
  - stonogo 4y ago
    I hate that people's instinct is to play 4D chess with the intent of some random Wiki editor instead of even glancing at the data contained in the references. Here are some aged references for your discerning palate: Density Zoning and Class Segregation in U.S. Metropolitan Areas (2010) https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1540-6237.2010.00724.x https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1540-6237.2010.00724.x Distributive politics, ward representation, and the spread of zoning (1993) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01047991 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01047991 Urban Land Developers and the Origins of Zoning Laws: The Case of Berkeley (1986) https://escholarship.org/uc/item/26b8d8zh https://escholarship.org/uc/item/26b8d8zh Fifty Years of Zoning (1966) https://www.jstor.org/stable/25723800 https://www.jstor.org/stable/25723800
edgyquant 4y ago
This disputes the claim it originated in SF and the reasons listed. Odd that Wikipedia is centered on SF and its claim is backed up by (several experts believe.) Looks to me like another example of Wikipedia pushing a narrative and pretending it’s fact. https://economics21.org/history-zoning-america-flexible-housing-approach https://economics21.org/history-zoning-america-flexible-hous...
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  Zoning and SFH zoning are aren't the same thing, and wikipedia concurs with your article w.r.t. early US zoning policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning#United_States Looks to me like another example of HN guy pushing a narrative and pretending it’s fact. Or maybe someone just made a mistake and a more charitable reading would show that there is perhaps not a conspiracy going on but instead just a misunderstanding.

shkkmo 4y ago

If you want something more rigourous than a wikipedia article, that article's oldest source is the 2020 NPR article which links to this paper: http://www.schoolinfosystem.org/pdf/2014/06/04SegregationinCA24-2.pdf http://www.schoolinfosystem.org/pdf/2014/06/04SegregationinC... TLDR: the real estate developer that founded Claremont (Mason-McDuffie Co spearheaded by Duncan McDuffie) imposed conditions in its titles that explicitly bared non-whites and prohibited commercial enterprises. However, those title conditions couldn't control neighboring areas, so McDuffie pushed to get zoning laws passed that were explicitly inspired by anti-chinese laundry regulations in LA. The Berkley regulation was "expedited" to prevent a "negro dance hall" from opening. To me, the existence of the anti-commercial provisions in the McDuffie title restrictions in addition to explicit racial exclusions indicates that racial exclusion was not the only motivating factor in adopting single family zoning laws. However, the context and immediate usage does make it pretty clear that racial exclusion was a significant part of the motivation.

nemo44x 4y ago

No it’s just completely untrue. This is a common tactic today to say something was created for <racist|sexist|homophobic> purposes so the entire concept is bad naturally. See how activists say policing was invented to catch slaves or some ridiculous claim. There’s a bunch of others.

stonogo 4y ago
No, it's completey true. The first businesses affected by Berkeley residential zoning were Chinese and Japanese laundries (c.f. Ordninance 575-NS). Another zoning ordinance was passed to block a "negro dance hall." See Pollard's "Outline of the Law of Zoning in the United States," and Paul Ong "An Ethnic Trade: The Chinese Laundries in Early California." (Journal of Ethnic Studies, Winter 1981)
astrange 4y ago
I said literally and I meant literally. You can just look up the Berkeley city council meeting minutes! That's why they said they were doing it!
- klipt 4y ago
  But are you sure Berkeley was the first place in the world to create a residential only zoning? If not, they don't deserve the inventor label.
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    Okay, they didn't invent racist policies that persist to this day, they just furthered their racist goals by using existing policies that persist to this day. Better?
gowld 4y ago
It's a shame that our national history is ridiculous.
pwinnski 4y ago
Yes, it is absolutely ridiculous that slave patrols existed and formed the basis for later police departments in the south. It is also ridiculous that labor-busting squads existed in the north, which formed the basis for later police departments in the north. The history is there, it is what it is, as ridiculous as that is. You might argue that modern police have far outgrown their origins, and then it would be up to readers to decide which whether your claim is also ridiculous, given how many police departments generally exhibit qualities consonant with their origins.

wnissen 4y ago

If you have an interest, the most comprehensive book I'm aware of is "Zoned in the USA: The Origins and Implications of American Land-Use Regulation" by Sonia Hirt. Cornell University Press. 2014. ISBN 978-0-8014-5305-2. She's the one quoted in the LA Times article: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-01-19/single-family-zoning-us https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-01-19/single-fam... Full disclosure, I was so impressed with Prof. Hirt's book that I wrote her Wikipedia page.

astrange 4y ago
Also The Color of Law: https://www.epi.org/publication/the-color-of-law-a-forgotten-history-of-how-our-government-segregated-america/ https://www.epi.org/publication/the-color-of-law-a-forgotten...