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> OK, then the mechanism that let's websites prompts to install apps should be removed so apps are on the same level as web apps. AFAIK, such prompts are regul

> OK, then the mechanism that let's websites prompts to install apps should be removed so apps are on the same level as web apps. AFAIK, such prompts are regular HTML with links to the AppStore. If so, how do you suggest Apple make it impossible to add those to a site?

coder543 4y ago
> AFAIK, such prompts are regular HTML with links to the AppStore. The ones under discussion are not: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/promoting_apps_with_smart_app_banners https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/promoting_a... Apple controls the experience. The developer just tells Apple which AppID is connected to this website, and Apple chooses how to present this information. Smart App Banners also react to whether the app is currently installed or not, which random websites obviously should not be able to determine for privacy reasons.
l72 4y ago
It's actually tied to meta tags and the manifest.json. If you have the correct tags, Safari automatically shows the prompt if you don't have the app installed or the open with button to open in the already installed application. For Chrome (desktop or mobile), if you have similar attributes in your manifest.json, then Chrome will show the 'Install' button to install the webapp to your home screen.
rablackburn 4y ago
For PWAs you could simply not expose a hook to the developer that initiates the install process? It would be like if App Store pages didn’t have URLs. Have the install functionality added to the browser UI instead. If PWAs weren‘t arbitrarily restricted there’d be no reason to link to the app store because…you’re already in the app. Spamming users to hit the install button would be like spamming users to bookmark your website. That doesn’t seem to be a problem (though that’s probably because people don’t keep their bookmarks on their home screen)
charrondev 4y ago
The smart app banners are actually part of the browser. You add some meta tag to your HTML indicating your app ID and Safari shows a prompt outside of the web page to install or open it. Infuriatingly it can’t be disabled, and since it’s not part of the HTML I can’t use a content blocker to hide it. Now there are a couple nice things: - if an app is not installed you can dismiss for a particular site and you will never see it again. The website has no way to trigger it, the API is more like “Hey Safari I have an app” than “trigger a prompt”. - unfortunately if the app is installed you can’t dismiss the notification to open in the app. This I quite dislike because many sites have certain pages on their site with no equivalent in the app. Sometimes I have an app and just want to visit the site without being nagged.
- Someone 4y ago
  Thanks for the info, charrondev and coder543 I still don’t see why “then the mechanism that let's websites prompts to install apps should be removed so apps are on the same level as web apps. Otherwise, the situation is part of the anti-competitive lock-in.”. Web sites drive this, and can choose whether they let iOS show a “download the app” or a “install on home screen” option. It’s not Apple making that choice.
  - coder543 4y ago
    I’m fairly sure most people would prefer that Apple offers a version of the Smart App Banner that gives users a simpler install experience for PWAs. I think saurik was just humoring yamtaddle‘s perspective that PWAs should not be able to prompt for installation ever, and pointing out that it would only be fair to apply their restriction to websites offering native apps too. Right now, the install process for PWAs is needlessly obtuse compared to what users experience with a Smart App Banner. I saw someone elsewhere comment on the number of taps required with both methods, and I would point out that not all taps are equal. The simple, guided flow that the Smart App Banner gives users is tremendously easier for users to figure out than the “Add to Home Screen” flow that currently exists.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    It'd be Apple artificially giving native apps a boost / penalizing PWAs, like they've been doing for 15 years. Sites want to get on the home screen. If the only viable way to get to the home screen is to make a native app, the site will either be forced to implement a native app for no reason or be at a disadvantage. Apple pretty obviously can support a similar UI for PWAs as for native apps. If they don't, it's just them doing the bare minimum required by regulators while still keeping PWAs as an uncompetitive second class citizen. And if the argument is that these banners are bad UX and will be abused (because that's always Apple's argument for why something should not be allowed in browsers), then they should own up to it being bad UX for native apps too and remove it.

coder543 4y ago

> AFAIK, such prompts are regular HTML with links to the AppStore. The ones under discussion are not: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/promoting_apps_with_smart_app_banners https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/promoting_a... Apple controls the experience. The developer just tells Apple which AppID is connected to this website, and Apple chooses how to present this information. Smart App Banners also react to whether the app is currently installed or not, which random websites obviously should not be able to determine for privacy reasons.

l72 4y ago

It's actually tied to meta tags and the manifest.json. If you have the correct tags, Safari automatically shows the prompt if you don't have the app installed or the open with button to open in the already installed application. For Chrome (desktop or mobile), if you have similar attributes in your manifest.json, then Chrome will show the 'Install' button to install the webapp to your home screen.

rablackburn 4y ago

For PWAs you could simply not expose a hook to the developer that initiates the install process? It would be like if App Store pages didn’t have URLs. Have the install functionality added to the browser UI instead. If PWAs weren‘t arbitrarily restricted there’d be no reason to link to the app store because…you’re already in the app. Spamming users to hit the install button would be like spamming users to bookmark your website. That doesn’t seem to be a problem (though that’s probably because people don’t keep their bookmarks on their home screen)

charrondev 4y ago

The smart app banners are actually part of the browser. You add some meta tag to your HTML indicating your app ID and Safari shows a prompt outside of the web page to install or open it. Infuriatingly it can’t be disabled, and since it’s not part of the HTML I can’t use a content blocker to hide it. Now there are a couple nice things: - if an app is not installed you can dismiss for a particular site and you will never see it again. The website has no way to trigger it, the API is more like “Hey Safari I have an app” than “trigger a prompt”. - unfortunately if the app is installed you can’t dismiss the notification to open in the app. This I quite dislike because many sites have certain pages on their site with no equivalent in the app. Sometimes I have an app and just want to visit the site without being nagged.

Someone 4y ago
Thanks for the info, charrondev and coder543 I still don’t see why “then the mechanism that let's websites prompts to install apps should be removed so apps are on the same level as web apps. Otherwise, the situation is part of the anti-competitive lock-in.”. Web sites drive this, and can choose whether they let iOS show a “download the app” or a “install on home screen” option. It’s not Apple making that choice.
- coder543 4y ago
  I’m fairly sure most people would prefer that Apple offers a version of the Smart App Banner that gives users a simpler install experience for PWAs. I think saurik was just humoring yamtaddle‘s perspective that PWAs should not be able to prompt for installation ever, and pointing out that it would only be fair to apply their restriction to websites offering native apps too. Right now, the install process for PWAs is needlessly obtuse compared to what users experience with a Smart App Banner. I saw someone elsewhere comment on the number of taps required with both methods, and I would point out that not all taps are equal. The simple, guided flow that the Smart App Banner gives users is tremendously easier for users to figure out than the “Add to Home Screen” flow that currently exists.
- jsnell 4y ago
  It'd be Apple artificially giving native apps a boost / penalizing PWAs, like they've been doing for 15 years. Sites want to get on the home screen. If the only viable way to get to the home screen is to make a native app, the site will either be forced to implement a native app for no reason or be at a disadvantage. Apple pretty obviously can support a similar UI for PWAs as for native apps. If they don't, it's just them doing the bare minimum required by regulators while still keeping PWAs as an uncompetitive second class citizen. And if the argument is that these banners are bad UX and will be abused (because that's always Apple's argument for why something should not be allowed in browsers), then they should own up to it being bad UX for native apps too and remove it.