4 ms·

I'd like that. I'm a big fan of the whole design and build of the Macbook Pro, but macOS is starting to feel very dated.

by cecida 4y ago

randomopining 4y ago
What about it is dated? and is windows better?
- ntonozzi 4y ago
  I agree MacOS feels dated, some examples: The Windows window manager is far better than the MacOS equivalent, the UI is higher quality, more consistent and more discoverable, and PowerShell is better than zsh.
  - mattgreenrocks 4y ago
    What I miss most in macOS is the raw graphics performance of Windows, even for day-to-day computing. Probably a combo of available graphics cards, drivers, and how the OS treats graphics performance. Finder is def getting a bit creaky, but I've never hit limitations using it. As for PSH: use fish and don't look back. :)
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    PowerShell is better than zsh. brew install --cask powershell
    - anemoknee 4y ago
      TIL, wild.
  - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
    > and PowerShell is better than zsh. Could you elaborate?
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    I guess it depends on what one is looking for, because to me Windows feels the most dated of any desktop environment mainly due to its poor implementation of virtual desktops. Even the version of Spaces from OS X 10.5 Leopard (circa 2007) is better, and various *nix DEs had better virtual desktops since the mid-late 90s onward. That makes Windows harder to use for me than lack of snapping on macOS does, particularly with how Windows makes me feel like I need to maximize most windows which drives a greater need for good virtual desktops.
  - zuhsetaqi 4y ago
    > the UI is higher quality, more consistent and more discoverable The last thing that can be said about Windows is consistency https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windows-how-many-layers-of-ui-inconsistencies-are-in-windows-10/ https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windo...
    - sgjohnson 4y ago
      That article misses the Layer 9. Windows 3.1 UI, which is still present in Windows 10 and 11. https://i.imgur.com/fMC5ayA.png https://i.imgur.com/fMC5ayA.png
  - rswail 4y ago
    Powershell is available native on MacOS: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/install/installing-powershell-on-macos?view=powershell-7.3 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/insta... But so is current versions of bash, csh, sh, zsh, fish, etc etc ad infinitum in Macports.
- cecida 4y ago
  That's a good question, and I cannot really give you a coherent answer tbh. I just find Windows to feel more modern. I suppose a few examples are: Snap/Windows Management in macOS is a pain. Using Brew as a package manager isn't exactly a wonderful experience. The taskbar feels pretty ugly and dated - that little dot, and then having both the top and bottom bar in play just feels outdated. Even having to use Parallels is a bit of a pain - build a hypervisor into the OS. I'm the furthest thing from a designer, and I understand that Apple went with a different UI paradigm. It's just starting to feel a bit left behind. It's still my daily driver though.
  - Twisell 4y ago
    Well if you find this design outdated, how can you be so easy in reverse with windows 10 where advanced settings often result in un-burying NT era hideous and messy interfaces?
    - Illotus 4y ago
      Because settings related stuff is needed so rarely.
  - pram 4y ago
    Pretty rich considering Windows 11 added a low-rent version of the OSX dock.
    - sgjohnson 4y ago
      And rounded corners everywhere. This is because most of MS designers are using Macs.
- alpaca128 4y ago
  Not being able to snap/tile windows to a screen border or corner without third-party software is just baffling, and the official tiling method only supports two windows side by side in some weird fullscreen mode. Back when Windows introduced this feature I made the jump from a 256MB RAM computer to a brand new laptop with 2 whole CPU cores. It's time Apple caught up to every other desktop OS in this regard. > is windows better? In terms of UI yes, provided you don't need a functioning search feature. Windows 10 also finally added support for virtual desktops and scrolling in unfocused windows. Though unfortunately Windows 10 was such an unpleasant experience for me overall that I don't see myself using it in the foreseeable future.
  - birdyrooster 4y ago
    Magnet works fine, if Apple replicated the functionality people would be complaining that they killed off a successful third party app. Can't please everybody.
    - bil7 4y ago
      i think disproportionately more people would enjoy the feature being made native. There's no reason the third party app has to go away, fans could keep using it.
    - __warlord__ 4y ago
      7.99 in the App Store. Microsoft even have PowerToys for free to improve your already good experience.
      - alpaca128 4y ago
        Mac also has free alternatives like Rectangle. It lets me snap windows to screen edges in various sizes with keyboard and mouse, and that's all I need. > to improve your already good experience. The whole reason I stopped using Windows 10 is because it was not a good experience, to put it very mildly. But I likely was an untypically bad case, judging from Windows still being on the market.
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  Look at PowerToys window manager vs any of the apps on Mac. Night and day difference. This is like table stakes for a modern OS in terms of UX, and even the paid offerings on the Mac side are quite a shadow of PowerToys (which is made by Microsoft itself, and free) Windows Subsystem for Linux for native linux CLI. I've appreciated Mac being Unix-like, but the small differences end up being quite annoying. Much nicer to use an environment that's close to 1:1 with your servers Personally I use a Mac for the hardware, and that's about it.
  - Illotus 4y ago
    Wsl really did make Windows better developer platform than Mac. I'd still prefer straight up Linux, but that is not possible in all organizations.
  - rswail 4y ago
    > I've appreciated Mac being Unix-like Mac is a Unix. Darwin is a BSD. It has its own PID1, launchctl, instead of systemd. It's not* a Linux-like (Kernel ABI is different) but if you work with Macports, you can make your userspace a clone of Linux. There's very little that I can't get for Macports that is on Linux (not GUI stuff). You can get plenty of the equivalent "native linux CLI". Macports for native, lima or minikube to run linux containers. Virtualbox et al for running linux VMs.
- Hammershaft 4y ago
  I would say at this point in time MacOS is a superior OS for laptops but inferior to both Windows and big Linux distros for desktop. Windowing is awful, multi monitor support is inferior, the OS doesn't even have native support for mouse 4 + 5 buttons, and there's no subpixel text antialiasing which makes fonts look awful on 3rd party monitors. Beyond that, the lack of Nvidea support and OpenGL support makes it a poor platform for desktop 3D modelling and games. This is a personal anecdote, but I also feel like the quality and robustness of Mac OS has declined compared to the direction of Windows or Linux over the last few OS upgrades.

I'd like that. I'm a big fan of the whole design and build of the Macbook Pro, but macOS is starting to feel very dated.

by cecida 4y ago

I'd like that. I'm a big fan of the whole design and build of the Macbook Pro, but macOS is starting to feel very dated.

randomopining 4y ago

What about it is dated? and is windows better?

ntonozzi 4y ago
I agree MacOS feels dated, some examples: The Windows window manager is far better than the MacOS equivalent, the UI is higher quality, more consistent and more discoverable, and PowerShell is better than zsh.
- mattgreenrocks 4y ago
  What I miss most in macOS is the raw graphics performance of Windows, even for day-to-day computing. Probably a combo of available graphics cards, drivers, and how the OS treats graphics performance. Finder is def getting a bit creaky, but I've never hit limitations using it. As for PSH: use fish and don't look back. :)
- reaperducer 4y ago
  PowerShell is better than zsh. brew install --cask powershell
  - anemoknee 4y ago
    TIL, wild.
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  > and PowerShell is better than zsh. Could you elaborate?
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  I guess it depends on what one is looking for, because to me Windows feels the most dated of any desktop environment mainly due to its poor implementation of virtual desktops. Even the version of Spaces from OS X 10.5 Leopard (circa 2007) is better, and various *nix DEs had better virtual desktops since the mid-late 90s onward. That makes Windows harder to use for me than lack of snapping on macOS does, particularly with how Windows makes me feel like I need to maximize most windows which drives a greater need for good virtual desktops.
- zuhsetaqi 4y ago
  > the UI is higher quality, more consistent and more discoverable The last thing that can be said about Windows is consistency https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windows-how-many-layers-of-ui-inconsistencies-are-in-windows-10/ https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windo...
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    That article misses the Layer 9. Windows 3.1 UI, which is still present in Windows 10 and 11. https://i.imgur.com/fMC5ayA.png https://i.imgur.com/fMC5ayA.png
- rswail 4y ago
  Powershell is available native on MacOS: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/install/installing-powershell-on-macos?view=powershell-7.3 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/insta... But so is current versions of bash, csh, sh, zsh, fish, etc etc ad infinitum in Macports.
cecida 4y ago
That's a good question, and I cannot really give you a coherent answer tbh. I just find Windows to feel more modern. I suppose a few examples are: Snap/Windows Management in macOS is a pain. Using Brew as a package manager isn't exactly a wonderful experience. The taskbar feels pretty ugly and dated - that little dot, and then having both the top and bottom bar in play just feels outdated. Even having to use Parallels is a bit of a pain - build a hypervisor into the OS. I'm the furthest thing from a designer, and I understand that Apple went with a different UI paradigm. It's just starting to feel a bit left behind. It's still my daily driver though.
- Twisell 4y ago
  Well if you find this design outdated, how can you be so easy in reverse with windows 10 where advanced settings often result in un-burying NT era hideous and messy interfaces?
  - Illotus 4y ago
    Because settings related stuff is needed so rarely.
- pram 4y ago
  Pretty rich considering Windows 11 added a low-rent version of the OSX dock.
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    And rounded corners everywhere. This is because most of MS designers are using Macs.
alpaca128 4y ago
Not being able to snap/tile windows to a screen border or corner without third-party software is just baffling, and the official tiling method only supports two windows side by side in some weird fullscreen mode. Back when Windows introduced this feature I made the jump from a 256MB RAM computer to a brand new laptop with 2 whole CPU cores. It's time Apple caught up to every other desktop OS in this regard. > is windows better? In terms of UI yes, provided you don't need a functioning search feature. Windows 10 also finally added support for virtual desktops and scrolling in unfocused windows. Though unfortunately Windows 10 was such an unpleasant experience for me overall that I don't see myself using it in the foreseeable future.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  Magnet works fine, if Apple replicated the functionality people would be complaining that they killed off a successful third party app. Can't please everybody.
  - bil7 4y ago
    i think disproportionately more people would enjoy the feature being made native. There's no reason the third party app has to go away, fans could keep using it.
  - __warlord__ 4y ago
    7.99 in the App Store. Microsoft even have PowerToys for free to improve your already good experience.
    - alpaca128 4y ago
      Mac also has free alternatives like Rectangle. It lets me snap windows to screen edges in various sizes with keyboard and mouse, and that's all I need. > to improve your already good experience. The whole reason I stopped using Windows 10 is because it was not a good experience, to put it very mildly. But I likely was an untypically bad case, judging from Windows still being on the market.
adam_arthur 4y ago
Look at PowerToys window manager vs any of the apps on Mac. Night and day difference. This is like table stakes for a modern OS in terms of UX, and even the paid offerings on the Mac side are quite a shadow of PowerToys (which is made by Microsoft itself, and free) Windows Subsystem for Linux for native linux CLI. I've appreciated Mac being Unix-like, but the small differences end up being quite annoying. Much nicer to use an environment that's close to 1:1 with your servers Personally I use a Mac for the hardware, and that's about it.
- Illotus 4y ago
  Wsl really did make Windows better developer platform than Mac. I'd still prefer straight up Linux, but that is not possible in all organizations.
- rswail 4y ago
  > I've appreciated Mac being Unix-like Mac is a Unix. Darwin is a BSD. It has its own PID1, launchctl, instead of systemd. It's not* a Linux-like (Kernel ABI is different) but if you work with Macports, you can make your userspace a clone of Linux. There's very little that I can't get for Macports that is on Linux (not GUI stuff). You can get plenty of the equivalent "native linux CLI". Macports for native, lima or minikube to run linux containers. Virtualbox et al for running linux VMs.
Hammershaft 4y ago
I would say at this point in time MacOS is a superior OS for laptops but inferior to both Windows and big Linux distros for desktop. Windowing is awful, multi monitor support is inferior, the OS doesn't even have native support for mouse 4 + 5 buttons, and there's no subpixel text antialiasing which makes fonts look awful on 3rd party monitors. Beyond that, the lack of Nvidea support and OpenGL support makes it a poor platform for desktop 3D modelling and games. This is a personal anecdote, but I also feel like the quality and robustness of Mac OS has declined compared to the direction of Windows or Linux over the last few OS upgrades.