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Stores are happy to sell all your data to advertisers for now, but what they really want is to use it themselves. Their wet dream is to get us to accept Persona

Stores are happy to sell all your data to advertisers for now, but what they really want is to use it themselves. Their wet dream is to get us to accept Personalized Dynamic Pricing (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338776528_A_special_price_just_for_you_effects_of_personalized_dynamic_pricing_on_consumer_fairness_perceptions https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338776528_A_special...) which means that once the store knows who you are (either by your photo, or by detecting the phone in your pocket, or by your loyalty card) they will customize the prices at the register just for you in order to take as much money from you as they think they can get away with. They can drive up the price on the items you always buy until you stop buying as much, or lower the price on certain high price items just enough to attract you to them before they start creeping prices back up. They can use data like what you've bought from them before as well as data like your income level, who the members of your household are, and what your shopping habits elsewhere are. Store loyalty cards are seen as a great way to start collecting useful data and get consumers used to the idea that some people get (or even deserve to get) different prices than other people. Be cautious of any place that asks you to use an app or scan a QR code to see their menu or prices, and resist the idea that stores should be allowed to discriminate by charging certain people more than others for the same product.

JohnFen 4y ago
> Personalized Dynamic Pricing The very idea is just revolting.
- BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  It needs to be legislated out of existence.
- teeray 4y ago
  and probably very illegal
  - bjtitus 4y ago
    Absolutely, this seems illegal on several levels. At least one good thing about supermarket oligopolies is that they'll need to abide by the strictest unit pricing state laws for the region they operate in.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It's not illegal today. Grocery stores have already been testing it and it's common in other industries. > For example, ZipRecruiter, an online employment marketplace, indicates that it could increase profits by 84% by experimenting with personalized prices (Wallheimer 2018). Other players, such as travel sites (e.g., Orbitz, HotelTonight; DeAmicis 2015; Mattioli 2012), retailers (e.g., Amazon.com, Home Depot, Staples; Streitfeld 2000; Val-entino-DeVries et al. 2012), and even grocery stores (e.g., Safeway; Clifford 2012) have also reportedly begun implementing personalized prices for their customers based on individual characteristics. Here's an article on one grocery store's early efforts: https://risnews.com/safeway-offers-personalized-pricing-program-chainwide https://risnews.com/safeway-offers-personalized-pricing-prog... This is all just another means to get people accept that prices should be allowed to vary on an individual basis. I'd very much like for this to be illegal, but companies stand to make money hand over fist so I doubt it will happen.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Rury 4y ago
        The Robinson-Pactsman act makes this type of activity illegal today, but has largely gone unenforced with passing time due to the complexities of the act. There's talk that government agencies are thinking of returning their enforcement of the act. Anyhow, just because companies are testing things and getting away with it, doesn't make something legal... it could be a ripe opportunity for a lawsuit.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    Not illegal yet. Read the paper, stores have already been trying versions of it and it's being used in some industries already. Airlines have been playing with it for ages, which is how you can get very different prices online depending on things like which browser you are using. (https://millionmilesecrets.com/guides/are-airlines-raising-your-ticket-price-based-on-browser-history/ https://millionmilesecrets.com/guides/are-airlines-raising-y...). It's not transparent to the consumer when it's happening so you may never realize you're being ripped off.
    - teeray 4y ago
      It’s not illegal until a protected class is charged a higher price and has grounds for a lawsuit, and the grocery stores cannot prove their AI isn’t racist.
      - autoexec 4y ago
        It's not easy for someone to know what other people are being charged and it'd be easy to make it pretty much impossible for anyone to say exactly why. I'm guessing it'd fall on the person who was overcharged to prove that it had anything to do with their race, and even then the company will hide behind the AI to avoid all responsibility. There are already many examples of AI found or suspected to be biased, but has anyone at any company been jailed or even meaningfully punished for using an AI that was found to be biased? It seems like the most you can expect is "We'll stop using that AI" after which they'll just fire up another one.
el_don_almighty 4y ago
Who cares?! You are only correct in a SOCIALIST world where ONE market supplies everything. Your nefarious visions ARE WRONG in a CAPITALST MARKET where the grocery store must COMPETE with another store down the street and the CONSUMER IS FREE TO CHOOSE where they purchase their goods. All the regulatory barriers preventing new grocery stores from entering the marketplace reduce consumer's choices and drive the consolidation we see where Kroger buys up regional chains. These activities weaken labor negotiation power and consumer choice but somehow people call out for more intervention. Increasing competition always and everywhere lowers prices and increases choice leading to higher living standards for consumers
- autoexec 4y ago
  This behavior isn't transparent. You don't know what the person in line before or after you is paying for the same products. There are companies already employing these techniques to rip you off. Consumers are not free to choose where to get their goods. They are limited by practical restraints such as proximity and access. Food deserts exist in this country and they impact the lives of tens of millions of Americans. Millions live in food deserts and lack access to a vehicle. You've also fallen for the myth that that just because competition could exist it means that industries will always act in ways that hurt their own profits in order to compete for each other's customers. History, and your own experience, should make it plain that this is a lie. Just because consumers want something doesn't mean that there will ever exist any company who will provide it, or provide it at scale, provide it to a comparable level of quality/utility, or provide it at a reasonable cost. I want a cell phone carrier that doesn't collect and sell my personal information. They don't exist. I want a new car that doesn't come with computers, bluetooth, and any other high tech features. They don't exist. I want a streaming video service that offers every movie and TV show from the last 70 years for one low monthly rate. That doesn't exist. The fact is that in our capitalist market consumer choice is severely limited by what the market has on offer. If something allows everyone in an industry to make money hand over fist they'll all implement that thing because it makes them vast amounts of money and their shareholders will demand that they do. Consumers in the US are commonly unable to find a company willing to provide services that they want because in some cases it will always be more profitable for companies to not provide what consumers want. If Personalized Dynamic Pricing makes grocery stores a fortune by screwing over their customers they will all implement it. Any weird one off co-op or independently run store that refuses will be of zero help to the vast majority of the population who cannot access it. Regulations are a powerful tool that can be used to force companies to provide things for consumers that companies otherwise never would. Without regulations companies would be perfectly happy to sell people products that will kill them. Hell, even with regulations companies are often caught trying to sneak products filled with poisons like heavy metals into people's homes. You have personally benefited from regulations your entire life. Sadly, they can also be abused by corporations who bribe politicians and infiltrate regulatory agencies so that they can keep out competitors, and that is a terrible thing, but of course the problem there isn't solved by making regulations impossible, but by getting rid of crooked politicians and forcing oversight onto agencies to ensure that they're working for the public good and not for the corporations. Intervention is absolutely needed and we need much more of it, but we should be careful to make sure that they are the right interventions and that they are working to improve the lives of the people and not just the profits of the corporations who seek to exploit us at every opportunity.

JohnFen 4y ago

> Personalized Dynamic Pricing The very idea is just revolting.

BeFlatXIII 4y ago
It needs to be legislated out of existence.
teeray 4y ago
and probably very illegal
- bjtitus 4y ago
  Absolutely, this seems illegal on several levels. At least one good thing about supermarket oligopolies is that they'll need to abide by the strictest unit pricing state laws for the region they operate in.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    It's not illegal today. Grocery stores have already been testing it and it's common in other industries. > For example, ZipRecruiter, an online employment marketplace, indicates that it could increase profits by 84% by experimenting with personalized prices (Wallheimer 2018). Other players, such as travel sites (e.g., Orbitz, HotelTonight; DeAmicis 2015; Mattioli 2012), retailers (e.g., Amazon.com, Home Depot, Staples; Streitfeld 2000; Val-entino-DeVries et al. 2012), and even grocery stores (e.g., Safeway; Clifford 2012) have also reportedly begun implementing personalized prices for their customers based on individual characteristics. Here's an article on one grocery store's early efforts: https://risnews.com/safeway-offers-personalized-pricing-program-chainwide https://risnews.com/safeway-offers-personalized-pricing-prog... This is all just another means to get people accept that prices should be allowed to vary on an individual basis. I'd very much like for this to be illegal, but companies stand to make money hand over fist so I doubt it will happen.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Rury 4y ago
      The Robinson-Pactsman act makes this type of activity illegal today, but has largely gone unenforced with passing time due to the complexities of the act. There's talk that government agencies are thinking of returning their enforcement of the act. Anyhow, just because companies are testing things and getting away with it, doesn't make something legal... it could be a ripe opportunity for a lawsuit.
- autoexec 4y ago
  Not illegal yet. Read the paper, stores have already been trying versions of it and it's being used in some industries already. Airlines have been playing with it for ages, which is how you can get very different prices online depending on things like which browser you are using. (https://millionmilesecrets.com/guides/are-airlines-raising-your-ticket-price-based-on-browser-history/ https://millionmilesecrets.com/guides/are-airlines-raising-y...). It's not transparent to the consumer when it's happening so you may never realize you're being ripped off.
  - teeray 4y ago
    It’s not illegal until a protected class is charged a higher price and has grounds for a lawsuit, and the grocery stores cannot prove their AI isn’t racist.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It's not easy for someone to know what other people are being charged and it'd be easy to make it pretty much impossible for anyone to say exactly why. I'm guessing it'd fall on the person who was overcharged to prove that it had anything to do with their race, and even then the company will hide behind the AI to avoid all responsibility. There are already many examples of AI found or suspected to be biased, but has anyone at any company been jailed or even meaningfully punished for using an AI that was found to be biased? It seems like the most you can expect is "We'll stop using that AI" after which they'll just fire up another one.

el_don_almighty 4y ago

Who cares?! You are only correct in a SOCIALIST world where ONE market supplies everything. Your nefarious visions ARE WRONG in a CAPITALST MARKET where the grocery store must COMPETE with another store down the street and the CONSUMER IS FREE TO CHOOSE where they purchase their goods. All the regulatory barriers preventing new grocery stores from entering the marketplace reduce consumer's choices and drive the consolidation we see where Kroger buys up regional chains. These activities weaken labor negotiation power and consumer choice but somehow people call out for more intervention. Increasing competition always and everywhere lowers prices and increases choice leading to higher living standards for consumers

autoexec 4y ago
This behavior isn't transparent. You don't know what the person in line before or after you is paying for the same products. There are companies already employing these techniques to rip you off. Consumers are not free to choose where to get their goods. They are limited by practical restraints such as proximity and access. Food deserts exist in this country and they impact the lives of tens of millions of Americans. Millions live in food deserts and lack access to a vehicle. You've also fallen for the myth that that just because competition could exist it means that industries will always act in ways that hurt their own profits in order to compete for each other's customers. History, and your own experience, should make it plain that this is a lie. Just because consumers want something doesn't mean that there will ever exist any company who will provide it, or provide it at scale, provide it to a comparable level of quality/utility, or provide it at a reasonable cost. I want a cell phone carrier that doesn't collect and sell my personal information. They don't exist. I want a new car that doesn't come with computers, bluetooth, and any other high tech features. They don't exist. I want a streaming video service that offers every movie and TV show from the last 70 years for one low monthly rate. That doesn't exist. The fact is that in our capitalist market consumer choice is severely limited by what the market has on offer. If something allows everyone in an industry to make money hand over fist they'll all implement that thing because it makes them vast amounts of money and their shareholders will demand that they do. Consumers in the US are commonly unable to find a company willing to provide services that they want because in some cases it will always be more profitable for companies to not provide what consumers want. If Personalized Dynamic Pricing makes grocery stores a fortune by screwing over their customers they will all implement it. Any weird one off co-op or independently run store that refuses will be of zero help to the vast majority of the population who cannot access it. Regulations are a powerful tool that can be used to force companies to provide things for consumers that companies otherwise never would. Without regulations companies would be perfectly happy to sell people products that will kill them. Hell, even with regulations companies are often caught trying to sneak products filled with poisons like heavy metals into people's homes. You have personally benefited from regulations your entire life. Sadly, they can also be abused by corporations who bribe politicians and infiltrate regulatory agencies so that they can keep out competitors, and that is a terrible thing, but of course the problem there isn't solved by making regulations impossible, but by getting rid of crooked politicians and forcing oversight onto agencies to ensure that they're working for the public good and not for the corporations. Intervention is absolutely needed and we need much more of it, but we should be careful to make sure that they are the right interventions and that they are working to improve the lives of the people and not just the profits of the corporations who seek to exploit us at every opportunity.