6 ms·

Unless I’ve misunderstood, this a quite a big event in the history of the web platform. Apple’s quiet refusal to support this part of the PWA standard has for y

by cal85 4y ago

Unless I’ve misunderstood, this a quite a big event in the history of the web platform. Apple’s quiet refusal to support this part of the PWA standard has for years been quietly maintaining a significant situation: that if you wanted to make a viable digital product that involved notifications, you basically had no choice but to make a dedicated iOS app, along with either a PWA or an Android app. If iOS Safari fully supports PWA notifications, with no funny business, that is no longer the case. Suddenly it is viable to make a single version of your app for every phone. This also has big implications for the hegemony of the App Store and Apple’s control over the web platform. I don’t fully understand why they are finally giving up this power they have held onto for about 8 years, but I’m glad they are.

wsc981 4y ago
Isn’t there a push by some legislators in some countries for Apple to allow alternative app stores on iOS devices in the near future? That might have something to do with this perhaps ...
- freedomben 4y ago
  Exactly, I think that's what this is about. either no need to allow sideloading cause PWAs, or it's an olive branch to iterate closer to prevent the big hammer from dropping. Also of course possible that Apple just supports it, but given then long history of evidence against that I don't consider it likely.
threeseed 4y ago
> This also has big implications for the hegemony of the App Store and Apple’s control over the web platform No it doesn't. It will make zero difference. Because developers have been building web based mobile apps for nearly 15 years now. And they never took off not because it lacks push notifications or some other minor feature. It's because the end user experience is terrible. And I've yet to see anything that addresses the difference is latency, responsiveness, feeling etc that you get between native and web apps.
- redbar0n 4y ago
  Things have changed a lot in the last few years. This is a React Native vs. Ionic React+Capacitor responsiveness demo: https://twitter.com/magnemg/status/1404073426193690634?s=20 https://twitter.com/magnemg/status/1404073426193690634?s=20 You can achieve 60 fps with webapps now: https://ionic.io/blog/ionic-vs-react-native-performance-comparison https://ionic.io/blog/ionic-vs-react-native-performance-comp... With the Shared Element Transitions API you even get smooth page transitions (even for MPA's with full page reload): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mv0_jsWhoE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mv0_jsWhoE
- joenathanone 4y ago
  I build a PWA currently in use by around 130 people, no one can tell its not native.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    I assume you have a native app as well and have benchmarked both with users. Because when you compare native/PWA with mainstream apps the experience is significant.
    - jasonlotito 4y ago
      > I assume you have a native app as well and have benchmarked both with users. Yes, I can speak for them. They compared their native implementation with the one that exists. The users enjoy using the web app compared to the current native app. Why? Because it doesn't exist. Because creating a native app doesn't solve the problem. Because when you say "native", do you mean iOS or Android? Or Mac? Or Windows? Or Linux? Or whatever else there is? Yes, eventually, there might be a desire to build out a native app if it's needed. But the assumption that everyone needs a native app is absurd. Not everything needs a native app, and can work just fine without. As for this persons users? Yes, they enjoy the PWA, because without it, the "native" app wouldn't work for some of them.
      - threeseed 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
scarface74 4y ago
It came out in the Epic Trial that 80% of all app store revenue comes from games and in app purchases. The difference that web push notifications will make is infinitesimal.

by cal85 4y ago

wsc981 4y ago

Isn’t there a push by some legislators in some countries for Apple to allow alternative app stores on iOS devices in the near future? That might have something to do with this perhaps ...

freedomben 4y ago
Exactly, I think that's what this is about. either no need to allow sideloading cause PWAs, or it's an olive branch to iterate closer to prevent the big hammer from dropping. Also of course possible that Apple just supports it, but given then long history of evidence against that I don't consider it likely.

threeseed 4y ago

> This also has big implications for the hegemony of the App Store and Apple’s control over the web platform No it doesn't. It will make zero difference. Because developers have been building web based mobile apps for nearly 15 years now. And they never took off not because it lacks push notifications or some other minor feature. It's because the end user experience is terrible. And I've yet to see anything that addresses the difference is latency, responsiveness, feeling etc that you get between native and web apps.

redbar0n 4y ago
Things have changed a lot in the last few years. This is a React Native vs. Ionic React+Capacitor responsiveness demo: https://twitter.com/magnemg/status/1404073426193690634?s=20 https://twitter.com/magnemg/status/1404073426193690634?s=20 You can achieve 60 fps with webapps now: https://ionic.io/blog/ionic-vs-react-native-performance-comparison https://ionic.io/blog/ionic-vs-react-native-performance-comp... With the Shared Element Transitions API you even get smooth page transitions (even for MPA's with full page reload): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mv0_jsWhoE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mv0_jsWhoE
joenathanone 4y ago
I build a PWA currently in use by around 130 people, no one can tell its not native.
- threeseed 4y ago
  I assume you have a native app as well and have benchmarked both with users. Because when you compare native/PWA with mainstream apps the experience is significant.
  - jasonlotito 4y ago
    > I assume you have a native app as well and have benchmarked both with users. Yes, I can speak for them. They compared their native implementation with the one that exists. The users enjoy using the web app compared to the current native app. Why? Because it doesn't exist. Because creating a native app doesn't solve the problem. Because when you say "native", do you mean iOS or Android? Or Mac? Or Windows? Or Linux? Or whatever else there is? Yes, eventually, there might be a desire to build out a native app if it's needed. But the assumption that everyone needs a native app is absurd. Not everything needs a native app, and can work just fine without. As for this persons users? Yes, they enjoy the PWA, because without it, the "native" app wouldn't work for some of them.
    - threeseed 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

scarface74 4y ago

It came out in the Epic Trial that 80% of all app store revenue comes from games and in app purchases. The difference that web push notifications will make is infinitesimal.