4 ms·

Clicking the share icon and then add to home screen is byzantine?

boucher 4y ago
Byzantine is a bit much, but it's not particularly discoverable if you don't already know what you're looking for.
lxgr 4y ago
It's completely non-discoverable! The only way to even find out if a website actually offers a PWA (assuming you know what that is, which is probably not true for >90% of users at this point) is to add it to your homescreen and then see if you get essentially just a bookmark, or an actual PWA.
- recuter 4y ago
  If you offer a PWA can't you just have a wee css popup with a big arrow floating at the bottom of the screen pointing out exactly how to install it?
  - afavour 4y ago
    The instructions to install vary by device, OS version, etc. etc. It should just be equivalent to native apps. A link to an App Store URL takes the user directly to an install screen. It was clearly seen as enough of an issue that they implemented that, so there's no reason web apps can't be the same.
    - recuter 4y ago
      As far as I'm aware since iOS 1 the instructions have always just been "click share button => Add to home screen" on all of their devices.
      - afavour 4y ago
        If you think the bulk of users even know what "share icon" is you're kidding yourself. If you think they find that modal window intuitive you're kidding yourself. Even then, you're sharing... to the home screen? "Share to the Home Screen" is not the way anyone thinks about installing an app. The whole concept is a mess.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        recuter 4y ago
        I don't.. that's why I asked if a giant " click here" floating thingie might help. (HN strips them out: https://emojipedia.org/white-down-pointing-index-dark-skin-tone/ https://emojipedia.org/white-down-pointing-index-dark-skin-t...)
        afavour 4y ago
        That's what I'm saying about device variation: that downward pointing arrow would be incorrect on an iPad because the share button is in the top right. Exactly how far from the right depends on OS version, whether the screen is portrait or landscape, whether you have a larger text size enabled in accessibility settings... And _all_ of this is ignoring the fact that Android also exists. Half the point of using the web is to be able to do stuff cross platform, once you start sniffing user agents and screen dimensions you're creating something doomed to fail in the long term.
        nlitened 4y ago
        So you’re saying that you’d like to send web notifications to users who aren’t “technical enough” to add a website to their home screen? Surely then they are also not technical enough to unsubscribe from these spammy popups. I am glad that Apple protects my mom from this nightmare.
        afavour 4y ago
        How is any of this different to native apps, though?
  - jonny_eh 4y ago
    Yes, I've seen sites do this, such as https://post.news https://post.news
afavour 4y ago
Ask any average user how they’d go about installing a web site to their Home Screen and they’ll just stare at you blankly. I guess Byzantine is the wrong word. It’s not discoverable because no one knows what they’re even looking for.
- monkin 4y ago
  I think that more likely no one cares about this beside few tech-savvy users and they don't need a guide to do it.
  - afavour 4y ago
    I don’t think anyone cares, no, because to them it’s a meaningless technical distinction. They shouldn’t have to care. I think they want to install an app. If it were equivalently easy to install a webapp vs native most users would be happy with either. But native is a two-tap process, web is a mess.
    - intrasight 4y ago
      PWA is also a two-tap process - and with less cognitive dissonance. No reading reviews, terms of service, privacy docs. No "onboarding" workflow.
sedatk 4y ago
You lost the user at "Clicking the share icon".
- nine_k 4y ago
  Is it harder than clicking on App Store icon? Especially if you put a nice large animated instruction right on the web page.
  - sedatk 4y ago
    Yes, it's way harder because "share" is semantically incompatible with installing an app.
    - bigjump 4y ago
      But, less hard than dragging a CD/DVD to the trash can to eject it.
      - sedatk 4y ago
        Even less hard than writing machine code in binary.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- musictubes 4y ago
  In Apple parlance I believe they call it the action button not the share button. If understood that way adding to Home Screen is easy to find. The fact that so many people on HN keep calling it the share button means that Apple hasn’t communicated the concept very well.
  - intrasight 4y ago
    I Google "ios action button" and find nothing. I google "ios share button" and screens full of the button we're talking about. So regardless of "Apple parlance", this is the "share button".
happytoexplain 4y ago
Absolutely, yes - and this is a great example of how out of touch most software-experienced people are with how stupendously confusing/non-discoverable most UI is for most users.
pacomerh 4y ago
It's not intuitive and most users won't find it. I honestly didn't think Apple wanted the web to succeed, so I was surprised when Jen Simmons joined but it seems like she's moving the needle!.

Byzantine is a bit much, but it's not particularly discoverable if you don't already know what you're looking for.

lxgr 4y ago

It's completely non-discoverable! The only way to even find out if a website actually offers a PWA (assuming you know what that is, which is probably not true for >90% of users at this point) is to add it to your homescreen and then see if you get essentially just a bookmark, or an actual PWA.

recuter 4y ago
If you offer a PWA can't you just have a wee css popup with a big arrow floating at the bottom of the screen pointing out exactly how to install it?
- afavour 4y ago
  The instructions to install vary by device, OS version, etc. etc. It should just be equivalent to native apps. A link to an App Store URL takes the user directly to an install screen. It was clearly seen as enough of an issue that they implemented that, so there's no reason web apps can't be the same.
  - recuter 4y ago
    As far as I'm aware since iOS 1 the instructions have always just been "click share button => Add to home screen" on all of their devices.
    - afavour 4y ago
      If you think the bulk of users even know what "share icon" is you're kidding yourself. If you think they find that modal window intuitive you're kidding yourself. Even then, you're sharing... to the home screen? "Share to the Home Screen" is not the way anyone thinks about installing an app. The whole concept is a mess.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - recuter 4y ago
        I don't.. that's why I asked if a giant " click here" floating thingie might help. (HN strips them out: https://emojipedia.org/white-down-pointing-index-dark-skin-tone/ https://emojipedia.org/white-down-pointing-index-dark-skin-t...)
        afavour 4y ago
        That's what I'm saying about device variation: that downward pointing arrow would be incorrect on an iPad because the share button is in the top right. Exactly how far from the right depends on OS version, whether the screen is portrait or landscape, whether you have a larger text size enabled in accessibility settings... And _all_ of this is ignoring the fact that Android also exists. Half the point of using the web is to be able to do stuff cross platform, once you start sniffing user agents and screen dimensions you're creating something doomed to fail in the long term.
      - nlitened 4y ago
        So you’re saying that you’d like to send web notifications to users who aren’t “technical enough” to add a website to their home screen? Surely then they are also not technical enough to unsubscribe from these spammy popups. I am glad that Apple protects my mom from this nightmare.
        afavour 4y ago
        How is any of this different to native apps, though?
- jonny_eh 4y ago
  Yes, I've seen sites do this, such as https://post.news https://post.news

afavour 4y ago

Ask any average user how they’d go about installing a web site to their Home Screen and they’ll just stare at you blankly. I guess Byzantine is the wrong word. It’s not discoverable because no one knows what they’re even looking for.

monkin 4y ago
I think that more likely no one cares about this beside few tech-savvy users and they don't need a guide to do it.
- afavour 4y ago
  I don’t think anyone cares, no, because to them it’s a meaningless technical distinction. They shouldn’t have to care. I think they want to install an app. If it were equivalently easy to install a webapp vs native most users would be happy with either. But native is a two-tap process, web is a mess.
  - intrasight 4y ago
    PWA is also a two-tap process - and with less cognitive dissonance. No reading reviews, terms of service, privacy docs. No "onboarding" workflow.

sedatk 4y ago

You lost the user at "Clicking the share icon".

nine_k 4y ago
Is it harder than clicking on App Store icon? Especially if you put a nice large animated instruction right on the web page.
- sedatk 4y ago
  Yes, it's way harder because "share" is semantically incompatible with installing an app.
  - bigjump 4y ago
    But, less hard than dragging a CD/DVD to the trash can to eject it.
    - sedatk 4y ago
      Even less hard than writing machine code in binary.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
musictubes 4y ago
In Apple parlance I believe they call it the action button not the share button. If understood that way adding to Home Screen is easy to find. The fact that so many people on HN keep calling it the share button means that Apple hasn’t communicated the concept very well.
- intrasight 4y ago
  I Google "ios action button" and find nothing. I google "ios share button" and screens full of the button we're talking about. So regardless of "Apple parlance", this is the "share button".

happytoexplain 4y ago

Absolutely, yes - and this is a great example of how out of touch most software-experienced people are with how stupendously confusing/non-discoverable most UI is for most users.

pacomerh 4y ago

It's not intuitive and most users won't find it. I honestly didn't think Apple wanted the web to succeed, so I was surprised when Jen Simmons joined but it seems like she's moving the needle!.