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I had a £2,000 electric bike stolen in Oxford. No worries - it had a GPS tracker, and I could see it heading to Birmingham up the M40. Also, my neighbour had CC

I had a £2,000 electric bike stolen in Oxford. No worries - it had a GPS tracker, and I could see it heading to Birmingham up the M40. Also, my neighbour had CCTV footage. You couldn't make out the faces or number-plate, but you could see it was a black Mercedes. It was taken at about 3AM. So they had "liberated" the bike (it was locked up), and immediately headed out of town. I'm sure it was scouted, then they came back in the small hours to steal it. I'm convinced that it was an organized operation, and the bike might have been stolen to order. When it stopped moving, I could see it was located in the back of a house in a Birmingham suburb. So I rang the Oxford police. They weren't interested - they told me to contact West Midlands police. So I rang them. No, they were not going to investigate: "Don't you realize how many Porsches are stolen in this city every day?" Also, they said they can't just walk in and have a look around (I guess they need a warrant, which is fair enough; but then why not get a warrant?) Like, I knew the address it was located at; so maybe the WM police would provide an officer to protect me, when I head up to Brum to collect the machine? No way. So I gave up. My replacement has no GPS tracker. So my experience seems to differ from the Amsterdam narrative. I had heard that most stolen bikes end up in Birmingham. My anecdote appears to confirm that bikes stolen in Oxford don't stay in Oxford.

jamiek88 4y ago
I’d have just gone and got it with ten of my mates. For real. Funny how upbringings are different. I grew up in a council estate in Liverpool and no way we’d stand for that shit we’d go to war. Your way is better.
nerdponx 4y ago
Good reminder that the assertion "police exist to protect private property" is incomplete. They protect certain private property, but in general not your private property.
- baremetal 4y ago
  Also: you are not allowed to protect your own property. Call the police instead.
  - User23 4y ago
    Unless you live in Texas, where up to and including lethal force is lawful to protect property.
  - wyager 4y ago
    Anarcho-tyranny: the police will not enforce the law, but they will punish you if you enforce it yourself.
    - winter_blue 4y ago
      > Anarcho-tyranny: the police will not enforce the law, but they will punish you if you enforce it yourself. This is a truly horrible state of affairs. Case in point, this is unfortunately super common in Canada: [1] (these stories might shock you) https://www.kruselaw.ca/library/using-reasonable-force-to-defend-myself-or-my-property-kruse-law.cfm https://www.kruselaw.ca/library/using-reasonable-force-to-de... [2] https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1230/index.do https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1230/index... [3] https://whatthelaw.com/blog/self-defence-laws-in-canada-myth-vs-reality.html https://whatthelaw.com/blog/self-defence-laws-in-canada-myth... Canada takes Christ’s Sermon on the Mount message of “do not resist an evil person” (https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm) into the reality of practical applied law, by punishing those who defend themselves.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  Police in the US seem to exist to perpetuate the institution of policing and secondarily to prosecute the drug war. Everything else seems to compete for priority 3.
  - wyager 4y ago
    This is true of most "public servant" roles. TSA employees, public school teachers, etc. - none of them, as a class, have the nominal productive capability of their job as the highest priority.
forinti 4y ago
So at what value do they start to consider doing their job?
- dazc 4y ago
  It isn't about the value of property, it's about the effort required and chances of improving future career prospects. Recovering stolen bikes is, therefore, very low priority. I had a similar experience where I followed a bike thief to his home, again police not interested. Police forces in the UK have various campaigns where they will, for example, spend a month targeting a particular crime or social nuisance. With much fanfare press releases will be issued about how many people were charged with not wearing a seatbelt whilst driving, for example, and for the rest of the year not wearing a seatbelt will be relegated back to being ignored again. The default excuse for this behaviour is lack of resources due to Govt cutbacks, which sounds fair until something interesting happens and suddenly 1000 police cars appear from nowhere.
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    Also...I saw regular drug dealing from a house and told police multiple times...no action. I told my councillor who lives on the same street. They spoke to the community officer about it, they put two CSO's (Police Community Support Officer. Civilians dressed like police, no power of arrest!) in a car to watch the place. A few days later it was raided at 5am by a huge force. It really matters who you are!
    - fknorangesite 4y ago
      > Civilians dressed like police All police are civilians. Don't let them tell you otherwise.
      - RHSeeger 4y ago
        By what definition, because Merriam Webster says otherwise [1] > one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian
blamazon 4y ago
> My anecdote appears to confirm that bikes stolen in Oxford don't stay in Oxford. I've never been to Oxford but I'm guessing it has a lower density of bicycles per square meter than Amsterdam. Presumably it's easier for stolen bikes to 'blend in' in Amsterdam?
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  I have been to Oxford and I would not be so sure! Bikes are everywhere in Oxford, probably due to the Uni
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  Oxford is a cycle city. Unlike Amsterdam, it has very poor cycle infrastructure; roads are narrow, and can't be widened because of preserved ancient buildings. There are more and more restrictions on ICE traffic, including ZEZs and LTNs. I don't drive, but it is definitely hard to get around in a car. There are two universities, and countless EFL schools and other schools; and students visiting Oxford are strongly discouraged from bringing cars. The universities have about 60,000 students between them (in a town whose permanent population is 140,000). So Oxford has a LOT of bikes.
  - blamazon 4y ago
    Interesting! I'll have to visit sometime, sounds like a fascinating place.
- magnuspaaske 4y ago
  Yes. I read the article and thought, no shit. Given that most people ride cheap bikes it doesn't really make sense to transport them to somewhere else and it might just incur additional operational risk. Much easier to just resell them back into the same city. Which also explains why the 2K electric bike is taken somewhere else – if you tried to sell it in the same town there's higher chances the owners find out about it (like from a Facebook posting) and involve the police. Understanding that the police don't work super well across district lines seems to have solved this problem for the thieves here (and created problems for everyone else instead).
maximinus_thrax 4y ago
> They weren't interested - they told me to contact West Midlands police. So I rang them. No, they were not going to investigate: "Don't you realize how many Porsches are stolen in this city every day?" Also, they said they can't just walk in and have a look around (I guess they need a warrant, which is fair enough; but then why not get a warrant?) I've seen/heard this numerous times. Cops really don't give a shit about theft unless it's from a business. But I wonder if you could just sue the homeowner for the bike in small claims court. Do you have something like that in your jurisdiction? I mean you can prove they're in possession of your property. Nothing criminal, just have a judge order them to at least compensate you for the bike.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > I mean you can prove they're in possession of your property. To be pedantic, I can only prove they're in possession of the GPS tracker. That cost about £250. Yes, we have small claims. I think it costs about £50. I'd love to have (partially) got my own back; but I was very much conscious that these people might not be very nice people, and they knew where I lived. I could have hired thieves to steal it back, I suppose; but I don't know any thieves that I trust (nor that I don't trust!)
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    IANAL but you don't have to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' in civil cases, just balance of probability. If you fought this case I think you would have a very good chance of getting a judgement. Whether that gets you any actual cash is another matter.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    On reflection, I guess I could have sued them for the value of the bike; it would have been a civil case, so it wouldn't have depended on proof, just on the balance of probabilities. I doubt they would have contested it; it would have been an easy win. But they might have paid me a visit and set fire to my flat.
    - 4y ago
BurningFrog 4y ago
I'll take the cops at their word: They have limited resources, and can not go after every criminal, even if it's a slam dunk case.
bombcar 4y ago
This is why cell phones just disable themselves when stolen even though infinitely traceable they have GPS and cell service after all). Nobody cares.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  Probably illegal, but a GPS tracking and remote braking could be a “fun” (actually really dangerous) combo for a stolen bike. Of course it is just as likely that some unfortunate person would have unknowingly bought your stolen bike, so that’d be bad.
  - Maxious 4y ago
    Rented ebikes do this - take them outside their allowed geozone and they will periodically change the motor speed to throw you off (or at least go very slowly)
    - alwayslikethis 4y ago
      I don't think companies are willing to handle the liabilities of "throwing people off". Probably just slowing it down to an unusable level.
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      I think by “throw you off” you mean, sort of make the rider uncomfortable by presenting a slightly unfamiliar riding characteristic, right? Stopping the front wheel quickly enough could throw the rider off in a much more literal sense!
  - alwayslikethis 4y ago
    Another fun way is to gradually lock up the front wheel of the bike so it gets harder and harder to balance on it. If gradually enough this may be enough to convince thief it's just broken or bad.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    See YouTube for electric shock bait bike
shiftpgdn 4y ago
I had this with a stolen iphone in Houston, Texas. I called the local police and they said they couldn't help, I told the operator that's okay, I have a gun and I'll go retrieve it myself. An officer was standing in front of me 10 minutes later. We got the phone back.
- gambiting 4y ago
  And that didn't get you in any trouble?
  - prawn 4y ago
    I wonder if you could slightly limit your exposure here by noting that you were legally carrying a gun, but for self protection. So there was less of an implied threat, but still maybe enough to spark a bit of police support?
  - tough 4y ago
    C'mon it was in Texas
    - kerpotgh 4y ago
      Still, you’re implying the use of a deadly weapon on someone else’s property. That’s going to get you in trouble.
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        Well, I considered warning the WM police that I was going to rock up at the thieves' front door, and ask them nicely to give me back my property. And warning the cops that I expected a breach of the peace to occur, becauase I thought it was likely they would beat me up. Failing to take measures to prevent a breach of the peace that they had been warned about would be bad publicity, at best. But I'm not inclined to take on cops and robbers at the same time. Like a circular gunfight, except with me in the middle.
Consultant32452 4y ago
Only about half of murders even get solved, so it's no surprise the lack of response to your bike.
forgotusername6 4y ago
A friend of mine had his bike stolen in Oxford. Someone came and took all the bikes at my house one night (except mine, because mine was awful and worthless). My friend later spotted the bike being ridden by a homeless man in the city. He was riding his other bike and made chase. The thief tried to outrun him, but my friend was on his racing bike. When he started to ring the police and describe his location, the thief dropped the bike and ran. I don't think I've ever seen a more proud looking man when he returned home that evening with two bikes. At least this one bike, on this one occasion, stayed in Oxford.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Homeless man overreacted. The police would not dispatch an officer to pursue.
  - goodcanadian 4y ago
    The homeless man wasn't concerned about the police; he was concerned about the guy chasing him down.
rhaway84773 4y ago
In the US you get renters or homeowners insurance. They usually cover stuff like bikes.
BonoboIO 4y ago
2000 ... well going to get my buddies and talk to the new „owner“.
mattlondon 4y ago
Next time tell them "ok thanks no worries - I'll just take a gun with me to go get it on my own then". You'll have officers there pretty sharpish :)
ChrisRR 4y ago
I heard from a friend in Cambridge that thieves would often spend a few days in Cambridge just hoovering up students' unlocked bikes into a van, then drive over to Oxford and sell them for cheap. Then while in Oxford they'd spend a few days hoovering up students' unlocked bikes into a van, then drive over to Cambridge...
scotty79 4y ago
I think it might about the price. You had a 2000 pound bike. Amsterdam is full of 50 pound bikes.

jamiek88 4y ago

I’d have just gone and got it with ten of my mates. For real. Funny how upbringings are different. I grew up in a council estate in Liverpool and no way we’d stand for that shit we’d go to war. Your way is better.

nerdponx 4y ago

Good reminder that the assertion "police exist to protect private property" is incomplete. They protect certain private property, but in general not your private property.

baremetal 4y ago
Also: you are not allowed to protect your own property. Call the police instead.
- User23 4y ago
  Unless you live in Texas, where up to and including lethal force is lawful to protect property.
- wyager 4y ago
  Anarcho-tyranny: the police will not enforce the law, but they will punish you if you enforce it yourself.
  - winter_blue 4y ago
    > Anarcho-tyranny: the police will not enforce the law, but they will punish you if you enforce it yourself. This is a truly horrible state of affairs. Case in point, this is unfortunately super common in Canada: [1] (these stories might shock you) https://www.kruselaw.ca/library/using-reasonable-force-to-defend-myself-or-my-property-kruse-law.cfm https://www.kruselaw.ca/library/using-reasonable-force-to-de... [2] https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1230/index.do https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1230/index... [3] https://whatthelaw.com/blog/self-defence-laws-in-canada-myth-vs-reality.html https://whatthelaw.com/blog/self-defence-laws-in-canada-myth... Canada takes Christ’s Sermon on the Mount message of “do not resist an evil person” (https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm) into the reality of practical applied law, by punishing those who defend themselves.
ch4s3 4y ago
Police in the US seem to exist to perpetuate the institution of policing and secondarily to prosecute the drug war. Everything else seems to compete for priority 3.
- wyager 4y ago
  This is true of most "public servant" roles. TSA employees, public school teachers, etc. - none of them, as a class, have the nominal productive capability of their job as the highest priority.

forinti 4y ago

So at what value do they start to consider doing their job?

dazc 4y ago
It isn't about the value of property, it's about the effort required and chances of improving future career prospects. Recovering stolen bikes is, therefore, very low priority. I had a similar experience where I followed a bike thief to his home, again police not interested. Police forces in the UK have various campaigns where they will, for example, spend a month targeting a particular crime or social nuisance. With much fanfare press releases will be issued about how many people were charged with not wearing a seatbelt whilst driving, for example, and for the rest of the year not wearing a seatbelt will be relegated back to being ignored again. The default excuse for this behaviour is lack of resources due to Govt cutbacks, which sounds fair until something interesting happens and suddenly 1000 police cars appear from nowhere.
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  Also...I saw regular drug dealing from a house and told police multiple times...no action. I told my councillor who lives on the same street. They spoke to the community officer about it, they put two CSO's (Police Community Support Officer. Civilians dressed like police, no power of arrest!) in a car to watch the place. A few days later it was raided at 5am by a huge force. It really matters who you are!
  - fknorangesite 4y ago
    > Civilians dressed like police All police are civilians. Don't let them tell you otherwise.
    - RHSeeger 4y ago
      By what definition, because Merriam Webster says otherwise [1] > one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian

blamazon 4y ago

> My anecdote appears to confirm that bikes stolen in Oxford don't stay in Oxford. I've never been to Oxford but I'm guessing it has a lower density of bicycles per square meter than Amsterdam. Presumably it's easier for stolen bikes to 'blend in' in Amsterdam?

jimnotgym 4y ago
I have been to Oxford and I would not be so sure! Bikes are everywhere in Oxford, probably due to the Uni
denton-scratch 4y ago
Oxford is a cycle city. Unlike Amsterdam, it has very poor cycle infrastructure; roads are narrow, and can't be widened because of preserved ancient buildings. There are more and more restrictions on ICE traffic, including ZEZs and LTNs. I don't drive, but it is definitely hard to get around in a car. There are two universities, and countless EFL schools and other schools; and students visiting Oxford are strongly discouraged from bringing cars. The universities have about 60,000 students between them (in a town whose permanent population is 140,000). So Oxford has a LOT of bikes.
- blamazon 4y ago
  Interesting! I'll have to visit sometime, sounds like a fascinating place.
magnuspaaske 4y ago
Yes. I read the article and thought, no shit. Given that most people ride cheap bikes it doesn't really make sense to transport them to somewhere else and it might just incur additional operational risk. Much easier to just resell them back into the same city. Which also explains why the 2K electric bike is taken somewhere else – if you tried to sell it in the same town there's higher chances the owners find out about it (like from a Facebook posting) and involve the police. Understanding that the police don't work super well across district lines seems to have solved this problem for the thieves here (and created problems for everyone else instead).

maximinus_thrax 4y ago

> They weren't interested - they told me to contact West Midlands police. So I rang them. No, they were not going to investigate: "Don't you realize how many Porsches are stolen in this city every day?" Also, they said they can't just walk in and have a look around (I guess they need a warrant, which is fair enough; but then why not get a warrant?) I've seen/heard this numerous times. Cops really don't give a shit about theft unless it's from a business. But I wonder if you could just sue the homeowner for the bike in small claims court. Do you have something like that in your jurisdiction? I mean you can prove they're in possession of your property. Nothing criminal, just have a judge order them to at least compensate you for the bike.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> I mean you can prove they're in possession of your property. To be pedantic, I can only prove they're in possession of the GPS tracker. That cost about £250. Yes, we have small claims. I think it costs about £50. I'd love to have (partially) got my own back; but I was very much conscious that these people might not be very nice people, and they knew where I lived. I could have hired thieves to steal it back, I suppose; but I don't know any thieves that I trust (nor that I don't trust!)
- jimnotgym 4y ago
  IANAL but you don't have to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' in civil cases, just balance of probability. If you fought this case I think you would have a very good chance of getting a judgement. Whether that gets you any actual cash is another matter.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  On reflection, I guess I could have sued them for the value of the bike; it would have been a civil case, so it wouldn't have depended on proof, just on the balance of probabilities. I doubt they would have contested it; it would have been an easy win. But they might have paid me a visit and set fire to my flat.
  - 4y ago

BurningFrog 4y ago

I'll take the cops at their word: They have limited resources, and can not go after every criminal, even if it's a slam dunk case.

bombcar 4y ago

This is why cell phones just disable themselves when stolen even though infinitely traceable they have GPS and cell service after all). Nobody cares.

bee_rider 4y ago
Probably illegal, but a GPS tracking and remote braking could be a “fun” (actually really dangerous) combo for a stolen bike. Of course it is just as likely that some unfortunate person would have unknowingly bought your stolen bike, so that’d be bad.
- Maxious 4y ago
  Rented ebikes do this - take them outside their allowed geozone and they will periodically change the motor speed to throw you off (or at least go very slowly)
  - alwayslikethis 4y ago
    I don't think companies are willing to handle the liabilities of "throwing people off". Probably just slowing it down to an unusable level.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    I think by “throw you off” you mean, sort of make the rider uncomfortable by presenting a slightly unfamiliar riding characteristic, right? Stopping the front wheel quickly enough could throw the rider off in a much more literal sense!
- alwayslikethis 4y ago
  Another fun way is to gradually lock up the front wheel of the bike so it gets harder and harder to balance on it. If gradually enough this may be enough to convince thief it's just broken or bad.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  See YouTube for electric shock bait bike

shiftpgdn 4y ago

I had this with a stolen iphone in Houston, Texas. I called the local police and they said they couldn't help, I told the operator that's okay, I have a gun and I'll go retrieve it myself. An officer was standing in front of me 10 minutes later. We got the phone back.

gambiting 4y ago
And that didn't get you in any trouble?
- prawn 4y ago
  I wonder if you could slightly limit your exposure here by noting that you were legally carrying a gun, but for self protection. So there was less of an implied threat, but still maybe enough to spark a bit of police support?
- tough 4y ago
  C'mon it was in Texas
  - kerpotgh 4y ago
    Still, you’re implying the use of a deadly weapon on someone else’s property. That’s going to get you in trouble.
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      Well, I considered warning the WM police that I was going to rock up at the thieves' front door, and ask them nicely to give me back my property. And warning the cops that I expected a breach of the peace to occur, becauase I thought it was likely they would beat me up. Failing to take measures to prevent a breach of the peace that they had been warned about would be bad publicity, at best. But I'm not inclined to take on cops and robbers at the same time. Like a circular gunfight, except with me in the middle.

Consultant32452 4y ago

Only about half of murders even get solved, so it's no surprise the lack of response to your bike.

forgotusername6 4y ago

A friend of mine had his bike stolen in Oxford. Someone came and took all the bikes at my house one night (except mine, because mine was awful and worthless). My friend later spotted the bike being ridden by a homeless man in the city. He was riding his other bike and made chase. The thief tried to outrun him, but my friend was on his racing bike. When he started to ring the police and describe his location, the thief dropped the bike and ran. I don't think I've ever seen a more proud looking man when he returned home that evening with two bikes. At least this one bike, on this one occasion, stayed in Oxford.

orangepurple 4y ago
Homeless man overreacted. The police would not dispatch an officer to pursue.
- goodcanadian 4y ago
  The homeless man wasn't concerned about the police; he was concerned about the guy chasing him down.

rhaway84773 4y ago

In the US you get renters or homeowners insurance. They usually cover stuff like bikes.

BonoboIO 4y ago

2000 ... well going to get my buddies and talk to the new „owner“.

mattlondon 4y ago

Next time tell them "ok thanks no worries - I'll just take a gun with me to go get it on my own then". You'll have officers there pretty sharpish :)

ChrisRR 4y ago

I heard from a friend in Cambridge that thieves would often spend a few days in Cambridge just hoovering up students' unlocked bikes into a van, then drive over to Oxford and sell them for cheap. Then while in Oxford they'd spend a few days hoovering up students' unlocked bikes into a van, then drive over to Cambridge...

scotty79 4y ago

I think it might about the price. You had a 2000 pound bike. Amsterdam is full of 50 pound bikes.