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I'm astonished consumers are still paying fifteen thousand dollars to be guinea pigs for this bullshit. No car that currently has tires on the road is going to

• adampk 4y ago
  When someone can drive from Palm Springs to SF with no intervention does that not make it bullshit anymore?
  • vore 4y ago
    Sure, but they can't.
  • onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    If you have a 99% chance of death - 1% of people are still going to make it. You obviously don't have a 99% chance of death - but just by virtue of it being possible does not also mean it is not BS. You can drive drunk from PS to SF also. What's your point?
    • RajT88 4y ago
      I know a Tesla owner. The chance of death (well, a crash anyways) is more like 1%, according to him. Those odds are good enough for the occasional trip home from a cocktail party, but hardly cost-competitive with Rideshares/Taxis. How many 9's do we need before we can say it's reliable enough to trust it? A few more, for sure.
      • rootusrootus 4y ago
        > How many 9's do we need before we can say it's reliable enough to trust it? A few more, for sure. Yeah, 1% is definitely not going to cut it. What are the odds of dying when a human is at the wheel? Something like 0.000025% if my napkin math is right and my assumptions in the right ballpark.
  • kube-system 4y ago
    The technology is mostly fine. The bullshit is mostly the false expectations they set, and the subsequent risks they choose to take in implementation in order to minimize their expectations miss. Other driving assistance systems try to do less, but they do it honestly.
  • causi 4y ago
    When someone can drive from Palm Springs to SF Does that mean "stay in the correct lane on the interstate and take the proper exits without hitting anything" or does that mean "begin inside your garage and end inside another garage five hundred miles away without touching anything"? The first one is nearly trivial. It stops being bullshit when they stop telling the user they need to pay attention to the road, and not one second before.
    • smachiz 4y ago
      I wouldn't describe it as trivial. My Tesla would phantom brake consistently in a lot of spots - overpasses were a very big trigger. Also anytime I'd pass an exit I wasn't taking in the right lane it would veer and slow down aggressively, same with trying to speed match a car rapidly accelerating on an on ramp. Bottom line, there's absolutely nothing that isn't driver assist; everything requires a significant amount of vigilance when you aren't driving in a straight line, in the left lane, on an empty highway with no one entering and exiting.
    • trinix912 4y ago
      Imagine a scenario: someone's on a bike, running down the street towards the pedestrian crossing. There's a vehicle (truck, bus...) on the left covering the view. The cyclist swiftly crosses the road, the car doesn't detect anything as there's nothing to detect (because of the truck/bus), bam! Many drivers would see the cyclist before and be very careful when passing the other vehicle (although we don't predict correctly 100% of the time either). I haven't had a chance to test any self-driving system yet so I'm legitimately interested, do those systems reliably detect such things? Not to mention people (esp. kids) racing through intersections on electric scooters, casually ignoring traffic rules...
  • latchkey 4y ago
    I'd love to see how one would do in the streets of Saigon. Just a couple blocks would be enough... if it gets that far. Update: https://insideevs.com/news/498137/autopilot-defeated-congested-streets-vietnam/ https://insideevs.com/news/498137/autopilot-defeated-congest...
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • olliej 4y ago
    FSD requires you to be 100% in control of the vehicle for the entire drive, and paying full attention to the driving, and also do nothing. This is demonstrably not a task that anyone can do, let alone Joa[n] Average car driver. Highly trained pilots are not expected to do that, and that's when autopilot is being used in a vehicle that can provide significant amounts of time to handle the autopilot going wrong - seriously, when autopilots go wrong in aircraft at cruising altitude pilots can have 10s of seconds, or even minutes, to handle whatever has gone wrong, Tesla's FSD provides people a couple of seconds prior to impact. That said in countries other than the US people can reliably use trains and buses, which also means that they don't have to intervene in driving the vehicle.
    • trinix912 4y ago
      > That said in countries other than the US people can reliably use trains and buses, which also means that they don't have to intervene in driving the vehicle. Most of Europe doesn't have ideal public transport either, I'd imagine South America, Africa being the same or even worse in this aspect. It gets drastically worse the moment you want to go somewhere in the countryside.
    • causi 4y ago
      Yeah I don't understand the "legitimate" use case. I would imagine people who actually shell out the money get their car onto the interstate then strap a weight to the steering wheel until their exit comes up. Having to watch the road without the stimulation of actively driving is worse than having no assistance at all.
    • xdavidliu 4y ago
      > Joa[n] nit: Jo[a]n
      • olliej 4y ago
        nooooo! :D
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• DesiLurker 4y ago
  How about asleep in your driveway to ER hospital bed? does that qualifies, it might excel in that.
• valryon 4y ago
  But you can fall asleep and wake up at work with public transportation.
  • millzlane 4y ago
    Noone is waking you for your stop lol.
    • toast0 4y ago
      They might if you live and work at the end of the line.
    • gwbas1c 4y ago
      When I had the luxury of taking public transportation to work, I did wake someone up once. I personally can't fall asleep on trains.
    • panki27 4y ago
      Have you tried asking other passengers?
    • kevincox 4y ago
      You could set an alarm. Worst case there is a delay and you wake up slightly early. The subway isn't going to magically go significantly faster.
      • vel0city 4y ago
        I've missed trains that left a station ahead of schedule by a minute or two in my regional metro system. I've also had busses go past a bus stop earlier than the posted time.
    • b112 4y ago
      This seems like a cool app. A bus route aware, "wake me 3 minutes before my stop" vibrate app.
      • 4y ago
• Izkata 4y ago
  Taking the bus is pretty close, just don't sleep on another passenger / through your stop.
• gwbas1c 4y ago
  After having a Tesla with Enhanced Autopilot for 4 years, I decided it wasn't worth the $7,000 extra and stuck with ordinary autopilot. It's just too damn glitchy to be worth thousands of dollars extra.
  • rootusrootus 4y ago
    Hell, right now I'd pay a few bucks to disable AP so I could use the old school cruise control. I still don't understand Tesla's opposition for making that an option whether you have AP or not.
    • noduerme 4y ago
      Teslas don't have cruise control?! The arrogance...
      • xeromal 4y ago
        They do.
      • xdavidliu 4y ago
        they meant "save a few thousand dollars so my Tesla can just have the ordinary cruise control that it comes with, without the autopilot which I believe to be unusable"
        • gwbas1c 4y ago
          No, I didn't mean that at all. All Teslas come with Autopilot. It's adaptive cruise control and automatic steering that will keep you in your lane. It's awesome, and I love it. "Enhanced" autopilot, which currently is $6000 extra, is automatic lane change, automatically taking exits, summon, and automatic parking. The automatic lane change is nice, but it fails too often to be worth thousands of dollars. All the rest of the features are basically party tricks. If I could have automatic lane changes for much less, I'd happily pay extra for it. Edit: Enhanced Autopilot was $7k extra when I bought my 2nd Tesla, now it's $6k extra.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• TekMol 4y ago
  Waymo does.
• mdasen 4y ago
  The "still" is what surprises me. Back in 2016 or 2017, I was excited. Musk still seemed like a pretty stable person back then and Tesla had basically executed on its promises and Musk said that by the end of 2017 you'd be able to drive from NY to LA without a single touch on the wheel. Everyone had said that EVs were doomed and Tesla really showed otherwise. Why not believe him? I like being hopeful about the future. At this point, it's looking pretty far off, especially for Tesla. Even Cruise and Waymo are having issues and they have far better sensors than Teslas. It seems silly to be paying $15,000 for something that realistically might not happen during my ownership of the vehicle. Even if it does happen, I can purchase it later. Sure, it's cheaper to purchase with the car because Tesla wants the money now. However, I'd rather hedge my bets and with investment gains on that $15,000 it might not really cost more if it actually works in the future. 5 years at 9% becomes $23,000 and I don't think Tesla will be charging more than $25,000 for the feature as an upgrade (though I could be wrong). If we're talking 10 years, that $15,000 grows to $35,500 and I can potentially buy a new car with that money. Plus, there's the genuine possibility that the hardware simply won't support full self driving ever. Cruise and Waymo are both betting that better sensors will be needed than what Tesla has. Never mind the sensors, increased processing power in the future might be important. If current Teslas don't have the sensors or hardware ultimately needed, one has paid $15,000 for something that won't happen. Maybe we will have self driving vehicles and the current Teslas simply won't be able to do that even if you paid the $15,000. It just seems like a purchase that isn't prudent at this point in time. The excitement has worn off and full self driving doesn't seem imminent. Maybe it will be here in a decade, but it seems to make a lot more sense to save that $15,000 (and let it grow) waiting for it to be a reality than paying for it today.
• idlewords 4y ago
  Only a horse can do that.
• ChickenNugger 4y ago
  If this comment were aimed at any other company it would be flagged and dead as flamebait.
• jehb 4y ago
  I mean, to be honest, I'm completely unwilling to pay any additional cost for a license to proprietary software that on my vehicle, and I won't even consider a brand that offers paid software upgrades to their vehicles, entirely on principle. See the recent case around BMW offering subscriptions for heated seats. Just no, absolutely not. Reject faux ownership.