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Does a recall like this actually mean owners return their car to Tesla for modification? Or would it be an over-the-air update to remove FSD?

KaiserPro 4y ago
That was my first thought. Also what percentage of people who paid for "FSD" needed their car recalling?
- acchow 4y ago
  This is 100%. It's a required software update on all the FSD vehicles.
kube-system 4y ago
> The auto safety regulator said the Tesla software allows a vehicle to "exceed speed limits or travel through intersections in an unlawful or unpredictable manner increases the risk of a crash." Tesla will release an over-the-air (OTA) software update, free of charge. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-recalls-362000-us-vehicles-over-full-self-driving-software-2023-02-16/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... Sounds like it's just a patch release with regulators involved.
- andrewmunsell 4y ago
  I'm not sure how to reconcile that statement with how FSD beta works. Fine, the speed limit thing is easy to fix-- just cap the max speed to the speed limit. But the "[traveling] through intersections in an unlawful or unpredictable manner" is inherent to the FSD beta. Most of the time it does "fine", but there's some intersections where it will inexplicably swerve into different lanes and then correct itself. And this can change beta-to-beta (one in particular used to be bad, it got fixed at some point, then went back to the old swerving behavior).
  - shoelessone 4y ago
    This is what I'm most interested in. I'm hopeful about Tesla FSD, and don't think it necessarily needs to be perfect, just significantly better than humans. So I'm rooting for Tesla FSD/Autopilot overall. I just don't see how given the findings there is a solution without removing removing the entire FSD feature.
  - vilhelm_s 4y ago
    If they accepted a software update, I would assume it would be about things that are deliberately programmed in, rather than just fundamental limitations? But I agree it's a bit odd. The longer description says > The FSD Beta system may allow the vehicle to act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution. In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limit. [https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2020/TESLA/MODEL%252520Y/SUV/AWD#recalls https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2020/TESLA/MODEL%252520Y/SUV/A...] "entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop" sounds a lot like the thing they already issued a recall over in Janary 2020 (further down the same web page), so it seems a bit odd that it would still be an issue. And "due caution" to yellow lights seems like it could just be tuning some parameter. On the other hand, failing to recognize turn-only lanes sounds more like a failure of the computer vision system...
    - starbase 4y ago
      I believe the stop sign adjustment is to increase dwell time at empty intersections. i.e. stop and count to two before proceeding.
lattalayta 4y ago
Seems like they should come up with a new phrase to distinguish between making modifications to the car at a dealer or service provider vs. a downloadable update, right?
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Yes, this is just a historical term that nobody bothered to change. We have to remember that Tesla was the first company to really do this and even today almost no other company does it. Most can update some parts of their system, but almost non have anywhere close to the integration Tesla has. So for 99% of recalls, it is a physical recall, its just Tesla where most of the time it isn't.
autonomousErwin 4y ago
I had the same question. I think this is the original report: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF On Page 4 it mentions the "Description of Remedy" as an OTA update. Gives a new meaning to a recall! https://howtune.com/recalls/ford/ford/1980/ https://howtune.com/recalls/ford/ford/1980/ Software > Stickers
tensor 4y ago
Almost all of these "recalls" that make the news are just software patches. The only difference between these and a normal patch is that customers get an email about it. I can understand why people might think that all these recalls require going back to the shop, that's how most legacy makers work to this day.
- gowld 4y ago
  It's also the word "recall", as opposed to "urgent patch", that makes people think that the car is going back to manufacturer. Non-Tesla automakers are not "legacy".
- idop 4y ago
  The solution being (supposedly) easy doesn't discount the severity of the issue. Owners must be informed and aware.
diebeforei485 4y ago
Why does the media not make this clear in the headline?
- natch 4y ago
  Because Tesla does not pay for advertising in media outlets. So many media outlets tend to have it in for Tesla.
- ChickenNugger 4y ago
  They hate Musk ever since he took twitter away from them.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Because it gets more clicks. Reading about how Tesla will lose lots of money because they have to recall 350k vehicles is juicy story, specially if its about removing a major feature, a slight software update to that feature is boring.

KaiserPro 4y ago

That was my first thought. Also what percentage of people who paid for "FSD" needed their car recalling?

acchow 4y ago
This is 100%. It's a required software update on all the FSD vehicles.

kube-system 4y ago

> The auto safety regulator said the Tesla software allows a vehicle to "exceed speed limits or travel through intersections in an unlawful or unpredictable manner increases the risk of a crash." Tesla will release an over-the-air (OTA) software update, free of charge. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-recalls-362000-us-vehicles-over-full-self-driving-software-2023-02-16/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... Sounds like it's just a patch release with regulators involved.

andrewmunsell 4y ago
I'm not sure how to reconcile that statement with how FSD beta works. Fine, the speed limit thing is easy to fix-- just cap the max speed to the speed limit. But the "[traveling] through intersections in an unlawful or unpredictable manner" is inherent to the FSD beta. Most of the time it does "fine", but there's some intersections where it will inexplicably swerve into different lanes and then correct itself. And this can change beta-to-beta (one in particular used to be bad, it got fixed at some point, then went back to the old swerving behavior).
- shoelessone 4y ago
  This is what I'm most interested in. I'm hopeful about Tesla FSD, and don't think it necessarily needs to be perfect, just significantly better than humans. So I'm rooting for Tesla FSD/Autopilot overall. I just don't see how given the findings there is a solution without removing removing the entire FSD feature.
- vilhelm_s 4y ago
  If they accepted a software update, I would assume it would be about things that are deliberately programmed in, rather than just fundamental limitations? But I agree it's a bit odd. The longer description says > The FSD Beta system may allow the vehicle to act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution. In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limit. [https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2020/TESLA/MODEL%252520Y/SUV/AWD#recalls https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2020/TESLA/MODEL%252520Y/SUV/A...] "entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop" sounds a lot like the thing they already issued a recall over in Janary 2020 (further down the same web page), so it seems a bit odd that it would still be an issue. And "due caution" to yellow lights seems like it could just be tuning some parameter. On the other hand, failing to recognize turn-only lanes sounds more like a failure of the computer vision system...
  - starbase 4y ago
    I believe the stop sign adjustment is to increase dwell time at empty intersections. i.e. stop and count to two before proceeding.

lattalayta 4y ago

Seems like they should come up with a new phrase to distinguish between making modifications to the car at a dealer or service provider vs. a downloadable update, right?

panick21_ 4y ago
Yes, this is just a historical term that nobody bothered to change. We have to remember that Tesla was the first company to really do this and even today almost no other company does it. Most can update some parts of their system, but almost non have anywhere close to the integration Tesla has. So for 99% of recalls, it is a physical recall, its just Tesla where most of the time it isn't.

autonomousErwin 4y ago

I had the same question. I think this is the original report: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF On Page 4 it mentions the "Description of Remedy" as an OTA update. Gives a new meaning to a recall! https://howtune.com/recalls/ford/ford/1980/ https://howtune.com/recalls/ford/ford/1980/ Software > Stickers

tensor 4y ago

Almost all of these "recalls" that make the news are just software patches. The only difference between these and a normal patch is that customers get an email about it. I can understand why people might think that all these recalls require going back to the shop, that's how most legacy makers work to this day.

gowld 4y ago
It's also the word "recall", as opposed to "urgent patch", that makes people think that the car is going back to manufacturer. Non-Tesla automakers are not "legacy".
idop 4y ago
The solution being (supposedly) easy doesn't discount the severity of the issue. Owners must be informed and aware.

diebeforei485 4y ago

Why does the media not make this clear in the headline?

natch 4y ago
Because Tesla does not pay for advertising in media outlets. So many media outlets tend to have it in for Tesla.
ChickenNugger 4y ago
They hate Musk ever since he took twitter away from them.
panick21_ 4y ago
Because it gets more clicks. Reading about how Tesla will lose lots of money because they have to recall 350k vehicles is juicy story, specially if its about removing a major feature, a slight software update to that feature is boring.