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This is fine, but it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your

This is fine, but it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) The only viable solution that comes to mind is to shop at places that don't perform this sort of tracking/loyalty card/etc. and continue to pay in cash. The only stores around me that fit this bill are convenience stores and a chain ran by an Amish conglomerate.

tarotuser 4y ago
> his is fine, but it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) Like hell it is. This is an article about Target back in 2012, that identified a pregnant underage girl purely from her purchasing record. 11 years ago. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/?sh=5d0c55616668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ... Target also made their own payment terminals so they could get PII from your cards, and then make a virtual loyalty card from that data. Walmart did similar as well. > The only viable solution that comes to mind is to shop at places that don't perform this sort of tracking/loyalty card/etc. and continue to pay in cash. The only stores around me that fit this bill are convenience stores and a chain ran by an Amish conglomerate. With facial recognition being a nearly solved problem, cash won't even save you. What will save us? Strong federal laws similar to the GDPR.
- hunter2_ 4y ago
  > With facial recognition being a nearly solved problem, cash won't even save you. Would be interesting to see the drop in positive face recognition rate (per human detected) from mask usage.
- _trampeltier 4y ago
  "With facial recognition being a nearly solved problem, .." Meanwhile in Switzerland https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/swiss-expat-news/facial-recognition-cameras-monitor-passenger-habits-swiss-stations https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/swiss-expat-news/facial-r... It’s never a nice feeling to think you are being watched, even if it is in a public place like the centre of a city or train station. Now, Swiss Federal Railways (SBB), the main public transport provider in Switzerland, has announced that it will be installing facial recognition cameras in 57 stations across the alpine nation - however, according to the company, the system only wants to know your spending habits and how often you visit each station. SBB to instal cameras to gather more data on passengers According to 20 Minuten, SBB wants to use the cameras to “obtain high-quality data that can be used to analyse the movement of people at train stations." Unlike the 700 cameras already operating in SBB stations, the new technology will allow the international company to track all passengers individually and in more detail. SBB said that the cameras will capture and analyse the following data sets: Passengers' age, size, amount of luggage and whether they have any special items (e.g. prams, wheelchairs, bicycles) Their route through the station How long each passenger remains in the station Customer behaviour in station shops (purchasing habits, anti-social behaviour, etc) Which shops are visited by passengers the most How much passengers spend in station shops
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    That's just an investment to protect Davos more effeciently against future protests.
  - jnxx 4y ago
    That is not necessary any more now. Now, when there are riots, it is well known that police has human "super-recognizers", which can scan thousands of photos and identify suspect individuals on a whim.
    - pixl97 4y ago
      Yet at the same time that one of these persons has this ability and ends up working for the police is a low probability event, the police only tend to use said profiler if the event warrants the expense. When a service moves from human ran to technology ran it generally goes from "I need to do this special thing" to "We should just leave it on and do it all the time, the IT budget takes care of that".
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      This is far more acceptable than facial recognition systems.
- Izkata 4y ago
  This one got a lot of coverage for how accurate it was, but we just ignore when it gets it wrong. For example, I've recently gotten a few mailings about signing up for Medicare once I retire in a few months - except I'm like 30 years away from it.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    But the point of it is that it shows they're targeting individuals, not just collecting aggregate numbers. How good they are at the targeting isn't important.
- officeplant 4y ago
  >Walmart did similar as well. Yep, I get emails about walmart purchases when I rarely go there, because I once made an account to order something online for a discount. I'm not even using the same cards anymore and they still know its me.
pessimizer 4y ago
> it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) What gives you the confidence to announce this? Do you have inside information?
breakpointalpha 4y ago
It is definitely about tracking SPECIFICALLY YOU. Target, one of the largest retailers in the US, has already abused tracking to increase targeted advertising to expecting mothers. https://bit.ly/3S3hlrA https://bit.ly/3S3hlrA
mrguyorama 4y ago
The stores would not need to do any of the stuff they do to track shoppers in aggregate. They have been doing aggregate tracking and collection since like the 80s. This is about pushing up the numbers EVEN MORE by doing specific targeting. My local supermarket has machines that push arbitrary "coupons" based on what you buy and your history, and I assume based on whatever rules the buyers of those advertisements/"coupons" want to implement.
JohnFen 4y ago
> it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. I don't think this is accurate, but it doesn't matter. Even if that's true, it may not be true with the companies they sell or share the data to.

tarotuser 4y ago

> his is fine, but it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) Like hell it is. This is an article about Target back in 2012, that identified a pregnant underage girl purely from her purchasing record. 11 years ago. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/?sh=5d0c55616668 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ... Target also made their own payment terminals so they could get PII from your cards, and then make a virtual loyalty card from that data. Walmart did similar as well. > The only viable solution that comes to mind is to shop at places that don't perform this sort of tracking/loyalty card/etc. and continue to pay in cash. The only stores around me that fit this bill are convenience stores and a chain ran by an Amish conglomerate. With facial recognition being a nearly solved problem, cash won't even save you. What will save us? Strong federal laws similar to the GDPR.

hunter2_ 4y ago
> With facial recognition being a nearly solved problem, cash won't even save you. Would be interesting to see the drop in positive face recognition rate (per human detected) from mask usage.
_trampeltier 4y ago
"With facial recognition being a nearly solved problem, .." Meanwhile in Switzerland https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/swiss-expat-news/facial-recognition-cameras-monitor-passenger-habits-swiss-stations https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/swiss-expat-news/facial-r... It’s never a nice feeling to think you are being watched, even if it is in a public place like the centre of a city or train station. Now, Swiss Federal Railways (SBB), the main public transport provider in Switzerland, has announced that it will be installing facial recognition cameras in 57 stations across the alpine nation - however, according to the company, the system only wants to know your spending habits and how often you visit each station. SBB to instal cameras to gather more data on passengers According to 20 Minuten, SBB wants to use the cameras to “obtain high-quality data that can be used to analyse the movement of people at train stations." Unlike the 700 cameras already operating in SBB stations, the new technology will allow the international company to track all passengers individually and in more detail. SBB said that the cameras will capture and analyse the following data sets: Passengers' age, size, amount of luggage and whether they have any special items (e.g. prams, wheelchairs, bicycles) Their route through the station How long each passenger remains in the station Customer behaviour in station shops (purchasing habits, anti-social behaviour, etc) Which shops are visited by passengers the most How much passengers spend in station shops
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  That's just an investment to protect Davos more effeciently against future protests.
- jnxx 4y ago
  That is not necessary any more now. Now, when there are riots, it is well known that police has human "super-recognizers", which can scan thousands of photos and identify suspect individuals on a whim.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    Yet at the same time that one of these persons has this ability and ends up working for the police is a low probability event, the police only tend to use said profiler if the event warrants the expense. When a service moves from human ran to technology ran it generally goes from "I need to do this special thing" to "We should just leave it on and do it all the time, the IT budget takes care of that".
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    This is far more acceptable than facial recognition systems.
Izkata 4y ago
This one got a lot of coverage for how accurate it was, but we just ignore when it gets it wrong. For example, I've recently gotten a few mailings about signing up for Medicare once I retire in a few months - except I'm like 30 years away from it.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  But the point of it is that it shows they're targeting individuals, not just collecting aggregate numbers. How good they are at the targeting isn't important.
officeplant 4y ago
>Walmart did similar as well. Yep, I get emails about walmart purchases when I rarely go there, because I once made an account to order something online for a discount. I'm not even using the same cards anymore and they still know its me.

pessimizer 4y ago

> it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) What gives you the confidence to announce this? Do you have inside information?

breakpointalpha 4y ago

It is definitely about tracking SPECIFICALLY YOU. Target, one of the largest retailers in the US, has already abused tracking to increase targeted advertising to expecting mothers. https://bit.ly/3S3hlrA https://bit.ly/3S3hlrA

mrguyorama 4y ago

The stores would not need to do any of the stuff they do to track shoppers in aggregate. They have been doing aggregate tracking and collection since like the 80s. This is about pushing up the numbers EVEN MORE by doing specific targeting. My local supermarket has machines that push arbitrary "coupons" based on what you buy and your history, and I assume based on whatever rules the buyers of those advertisements/"coupons" want to implement.

JohnFen 4y ago

> it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. I don't think this is accurate, but it doesn't matter. Even if that's true, it may not be true with the companies they sell or share the data to.