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> I'm not convinced induction applies. ChatGPT tends to "go astray" in conversations where it needs to maintain state; even with your patch for this (essentiall

> I'm not convinced induction applies. ChatGPT tends to "go astray" in conversations where it needs to maintain state; even with your patch for this (essentially reminding it what the state is at every prompt) I would test it just to make sure it can run a game through completion, make good moves all the way, and be able to tell when the game is over. You don't seem to understand what I am saying. ChatGPT cannot maintain state in a way that would be useful for playing a game. You must use a computer to interface with ChatGPT, like, via an API. And whatever program is calling ChatGPT needs to maintain the state of the game and can be used to iteratively call GPT. So by induction once we know that the bestMove function is correct, which we have seen, we know that it will work at the start of any game and work until the game is finished. I am definitely not talking about firing up the ChatGPT web user interface and trying to get it to magically maintain state. > Yes, but enough people hold it anyway that it is a concern. Some people hold this expectation because of a consistent barrage of straw man arguments, marketing hype, and fanboy gushing. > And it's made worse because in some contexts ChatGPT fakes this quite effectively! It turns out that a surprising number of computational tasks can be achieved by language models but that is not because they are doing actual computations. They are not at all reliably computers. I don't know where this misnomer came from and from what I can tell this has been known for years. No one has ever hid this fact and there have been solutions involving resorting to computations that have been part of published research for many moons now. The problem is that most people just want to read clickbait and emote to score fake internet points and they don't want to put in the effort to actually learn about new things.

the_af 4y ago
We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I understand (at a very high level) what LLMs do, and I don't think they can do actual computation. Why do you insist on things I've already said I understand? I know ChatGPT is not good at maintaining state -- though it can fake it convincingly (which understandably, seems to trip people up). I think it looks at your chat history within the session in order to generate the next response, which is why it can "degenerate" within a single session (but also, it's how it can fake and make it seem it's keeping state, by looking at the whole history before each reply). I don't understand the rest of your answer. You seem to be really upset at "the people". PS: > So by induction once we know that the bestMove function is correct "By induction", nope. Prove it. Run an actual full game instead of arguing with me. It will take you shorter to play the game than to debate with me.
- kazinator 4y ago
  What's the difference between keeping state and looking at the chat history? Keeping state is something a human would have to do, because for a human, it would be very tedious and slow to re-read the history to recover context, relative to the timeliness expectation of the interlocutor.
  - the_af 4y ago
    > What's the difference between keeping state and looking at the chat history? That's an excellent question. I don't know. Intuitively, looking at the chat history would seem a way to keep history, right? However, in my tests trying to play Tic Tac Toe (informally, not using javascript functions as the comment I was replying to) ChatGPT constantly failed. It claims to know the rules of Tic Tac Toe, yet it repeatedly forgot past board positions, making me think it's not capable of using the chat history to build a model of the game.

the_af 4y ago

We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I understand (at a very high level) what LLMs do, and I don't think they can do actual computation. Why do you insist on things I've already said I understand? I know ChatGPT is not good at maintaining state -- though it can fake it convincingly (which understandably, seems to trip people up). I think it looks at your chat history within the session in order to generate the next response, which is why it can "degenerate" within a single session (but also, it's how it can fake and make it seem it's keeping state, by looking at the whole history before each reply). I don't understand the rest of your answer. You seem to be really upset at "the people". PS: > So by induction once we know that the bestMove function is correct "By induction", nope. Prove it. Run an actual full game instead of arguing with me. It will take you shorter to play the game than to debate with me.

kazinator 4y ago
What's the difference between keeping state and looking at the chat history? Keeping state is something a human would have to do, because for a human, it would be very tedious and slow to re-read the history to recover context, relative to the timeliness expectation of the interlocutor.
- the_af 4y ago
  > What's the difference between keeping state and looking at the chat history? That's an excellent question. I don't know. Intuitively, looking at the chat history would seem a way to keep history, right? However, in my tests trying to play Tic Tac Toe (informally, not using javascript functions as the comment I was replying to) ChatGPT constantly failed. It claims to know the rules of Tic Tac Toe, yet it repeatedly forgot past board positions, making me think it's not capable of using the chat history to build a model of the game.