45 ms·

The sheer number of scare quotes in this essay makes it very uncomfortable to read, and in the end, I don't think it says anything substantial about the concept

The sheer number of scare quotes in this essay makes it very uncomfortable to read, and in the end, I don't think it says anything substantial about the concept of numbers. Even if you distill out the usual finite automata fillers

dlisboa 4y ago
I think it was well written as a pop-science piece, albeit some things were too technical for me and unnecessary in my view. Wolfram tries to make everything about cellular automata, which I'm not sure why is uniquely relevant here. The gist of it is pretty interesting to me: "things" only exist because we, as humans, observe the universe in a sequential manner through instants of time. If a collection of atoms stay the same through a few of those instants we consider that to have permanence, and be a distinct object or thing. By observing distinct things we can then count them, but that would be impossible if not for our experience of time. It is indeed unclear if that is how every being would necessarily observe the universe.
_2uwr 4y ago
tldr, visual symbolisation leads to numbers. Example being Inuit's (eskimos) have many different words for the different types of snow they experience, but Europeans have maybe a few words or even just one word to describe snow. Vocabulary is defined by your environment, which will include concepts like numbers. Look at Hungarian notation and decimal or imperial counting schemes. Different methods of counting numbers to suit the environment they evolved from.
- eouwt 4y ago
  > Europeans have maybe a few words or even just one word to describe snow Really? In common use: snow, sleet, hail, flurry, frost, hoar, ice, rime, (snow)drift, powder, slush. Less commonly: firn, neve, sastrugi, suncups, ...
  - moremetadata 4y ago
    Well I understood they had lots of words, some suggestions have been as high as 52 words for snow, but other sources suggest otherwise. https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/inuktitut-words-for-snow-and-ice https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/inuktitut-... but it appears Scots have 421 words for snow. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34323967 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34323967 But another concept which an AI or aliens may not be familiar with is the concept of time and the way it is visualised. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221103-how-language-warps-the-way-you-perceive-time-and-space https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221103-how-language-war...

dlisboa 4y ago

I think it was well written as a pop-science piece, albeit some things were too technical for me and unnecessary in my view. Wolfram tries to make everything about cellular automata, which I'm not sure why is uniquely relevant here. The gist of it is pretty interesting to me: "things" only exist because we, as humans, observe the universe in a sequential manner through instants of time. If a collection of atoms stay the same through a few of those instants we consider that to have permanence, and be a distinct object or thing. By observing distinct things we can then count them, but that would be impossible if not for our experience of time. It is indeed unclear if that is how every being would necessarily observe the universe.

_2uwr 4y ago

tldr, visual symbolisation leads to numbers. Example being Inuit's (eskimos) have many different words for the different types of snow they experience, but Europeans have maybe a few words or even just one word to describe snow. Vocabulary is defined by your environment, which will include concepts like numbers. Look at Hungarian notation and decimal or imperial counting schemes. Different methods of counting numbers to suit the environment they evolved from.

eouwt 4y ago
> Europeans have maybe a few words or even just one word to describe snow Really? In common use: snow, sleet, hail, flurry, frost, hoar, ice, rime, (snow)drift, powder, slush. Less commonly: firn, neve, sastrugi, suncups, ...
- moremetadata 4y ago
  Well I understood they had lots of words, some suggestions have been as high as 52 words for snow, but other sources suggest otherwise. https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/inuktitut-words-for-snow-and-ice https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/inuktitut-... but it appears Scots have 421 words for snow. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34323967 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34323967 But another concept which an AI or aliens may not be familiar with is the concept of time and the way it is visualised. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221103-how-language-warps-the-way-you-perceive-time-and-space https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221103-how-language-war...