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I'd love to hear more about this. I thought Pavel Durov (founder) isn't really welcome in Russia. He seems to have a left a lot of money on the table with his

I'd love to hear more about this. I thought Pavel Durov (founder) isn't really welcome in Russia. He seems to have a left a lot of money on the table with his previous company (VK) to get out of there. The interpretation of events with telegram I've always heard has been that Russia tried to block telegram but doing so blocked most of the rest of useful services as telegram was hosted on e.g. AWS. This meant that real work was slowed. In the end, they gave up because continuing the block would mean crippling their access to the internet. I have found it weird that pro-putin russians still use telegram. But it seems like a lack of discipline which is quite the plague of russian military. I'd genuinely love to get good information on this as I use telegram as it is a great piece of technology and wouldn't if it were collaborating with russian government. I think a lot of rumors do not distinguish between russian people and russian government. And that's pretty damaging.

tapoxi 4y ago
https://www.wired.com/story/the-kremlin-has-entered-the-chat/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-kremlin-has-entered-the-chat...
- throwaway13337 4y ago
  While very long, it doesn't look like that article provides anything but speculation. What would you say is the key point? Where's the meat? I know that it would be hard to get good evidence here but I still think the burden of proof lies on the more extreme claim. Which to me is that a company founded by someone fleeing oppression would work directly with the oppressor. The example of messages appearing as 'read' does not imply to me that telegram is working with them - rather that the her app was compromised by other means. Otherwise, why create such a flaw in your monitoring? Meduza - news organization criminally charged in russia operating in latvia - is mostly accessed in russia via telegram. It's hard but not impossible to imagine that the russian government would allow it to remain uncensored.
  - tapoxi 4y ago
    The agreement with the Russian Government over "Terrorism" cases is not just speculation, but announced by both parties.
    - throwaway13337 4y ago
      That would be damning if I could find a statement by telegram about how they are working with the russian government to deal with 'terrorism'. I'm seeing quoted statements by the russian government in the article that I cannot verify elsewhere but I'm unable to see telegram making a statement from their side of working with the russian government. I'm truly interested in getting to the bottom of this. This wired piece doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it's trustworthiness but I'm unable to find something with more concrete sources or at least a better reputation.
- fernandotakai 4y ago
  as a counter point, here's telegram's answer to this article https://telegra.ph/Wired-Errors https://telegra.ph/Wired-Errors

tapoxi 4y ago

https://www.wired.com/story/the-kremlin-has-entered-the-chat/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-kremlin-has-entered-the-chat...

throwaway13337 4y ago
While very long, it doesn't look like that article provides anything but speculation. What would you say is the key point? Where's the meat? I know that it would be hard to get good evidence here but I still think the burden of proof lies on the more extreme claim. Which to me is that a company founded by someone fleeing oppression would work directly with the oppressor. The example of messages appearing as 'read' does not imply to me that telegram is working with them - rather that the her app was compromised by other means. Otherwise, why create such a flaw in your monitoring? Meduza - news organization criminally charged in russia operating in latvia - is mostly accessed in russia via telegram. It's hard but not impossible to imagine that the russian government would allow it to remain uncensored.
- tapoxi 4y ago
  The agreement with the Russian Government over "Terrorism" cases is not just speculation, but announced by both parties.
  - throwaway13337 4y ago
    That would be damning if I could find a statement by telegram about how they are working with the russian government to deal with 'terrorism'. I'm seeing quoted statements by the russian government in the article that I cannot verify elsewhere but I'm unable to see telegram making a statement from their side of working with the russian government. I'm truly interested in getting to the bottom of this. This wired piece doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it's trustworthiness but I'm unable to find something with more concrete sources or at least a better reputation.
fernandotakai 4y ago
as a counter point, here's telegram's answer to this article https://telegra.ph/Wired-Errors https://telegra.ph/Wired-Errors