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In Telegram the first is available opt-in, an equivalent to the second is available opt-in (key change = shows up as a different chat), and the third is equally

In Telegram the first is available opt-in, an equivalent to the second is available opt-in (key change = shows up as a different chat), and the third is equally true.

lxgr 4y ago
We know from experience that most users never change defaults. For that reason alone, Telegram‘s "secure chat" is anything but.
- em-bee 4y ago
  it's worse than that. secure chat in telegram is very limited. you can't save anything shared in them. for most practical applications, like talking to friends and family you don't even want to use secure chat. if it were default you'd have to turn it off most of the time
- handsclean 4y ago
  I agree Telegram is a worse choice for security, but I think it’s important to know specific differences and not just simplify to “not secure”, because that approach’s flip side - believing simply that “Signal is good and secure” - leads to mistakes like applying the law of defaults only to Telegram, not Signal.
- pritambaral 4y ago
  > For that reason alone, Telegram‘s "secure chat" is anything but. I didn't think that particular Telegram feature was affected in any way by any option, only that they needed to be started explicitly but were always secure no matter what. So I immediately went looking through my settings and found an option that leaks tracking info by default, even in Secure Chats. Signal, by default, routes all calls through their server. The option of using P2P connections for better latency and call quality is opt-in. Telegram? See [1]. I found no evidence that Secure Chat calls are any different from regular calls. 1: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/telegram-leaks-ip-addresses-by-default-when-initiating-calls/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/telegram-leak...
  - KAMSPioneer 4y ago
    Huh? Signal uses P2P call routing by default. The "always relay" option is available for users who do not want to reveal their IP to anyone but the OWS service, and is found (defaulted to off) in Settings>Privacy>Advanced>Always Relay Calls. Of course of P2P is impossible your call gets routed through the server no matter what, but I don't think there's a fix for that -- there's ~always going to be a need to relay connections in case of NAT issues, firewalls, etc.

In Telegram the first is available opt-in, an equivalent to the second is available opt-in (key change = shows up as a different chat), and the third is equally true.

lxgr 4y ago

We know from experience that most users never change defaults. For that reason alone, Telegram‘s "secure chat" is anything but.

em-bee 4y ago
it's worse than that. secure chat in telegram is very limited. you can't save anything shared in them. for most practical applications, like talking to friends and family you don't even want to use secure chat. if it were default you'd have to turn it off most of the time
handsclean 4y ago
I agree Telegram is a worse choice for security, but I think it’s important to know specific differences and not just simplify to “not secure”, because that approach’s flip side - believing simply that “Signal is good and secure” - leads to mistakes like applying the law of defaults only to Telegram, not Signal.
pritambaral 4y ago
> For that reason alone, Telegram‘s "secure chat" is anything but. I didn't think that particular Telegram feature was affected in any way by any option, only that they needed to be started explicitly but were always secure no matter what. So I immediately went looking through my settings and found an option that leaks tracking info by default, even in Secure Chats. Signal, by default, routes all calls through their server. The option of using P2P connections for better latency and call quality is opt-in. Telegram? See [1]. I found no evidence that Secure Chat calls are any different from regular calls. 1: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/telegram-leaks-ip-addresses-by-default-when-initiating-calls/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/telegram-leak...
- KAMSPioneer 4y ago
  Huh? Signal uses P2P call routing by default. The "always relay" option is available for users who do not want to reveal their IP to anyone but the OWS service, and is found (defaulted to off) in Settings>Privacy>Advanced>Always Relay Calls. Of course of P2P is impossible your call gets routed through the server no matter what, but I don't think there's a fix for that -- there's ~always going to be a need to relay connections in case of NAT issues, firewalls, etc.