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I predict that this will absolutely tank the sponsorship for projects that are not US-centric. But maybe that's the intention here??? In Germany, most people d

I predict that this will absolutely tank the sponsorship for projects that are not US-centric. But maybe that's the intention here??? In Germany, most people don't have a credit card because you don't need one in daily life. Instant payments to friends? Giropay is free. Buy stuff online? PayPal, Giropay, Klarna. Send money to other EU countries? Every bank account supports SEPA, which is free. With that in mind, nobody is willing to pay $50 annually for a card which then charges 3% of every transaction, because there are good and free alternatives. And I don't think anyone will create a CC just for GitHub. Let's hope Microsoft will think this through and offer sane alternative payment methods (like SEPA deduction, the default for recurring payments in Europe) before removing the only non-CC option.

DeWilde 4y ago
That might be a Germam specific thing, right over the border in Czechia cards are omni-present. Plus you have e-banks like Revolut.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  But those are debit cards, not credit cards.
  - openplatypus 4y ago
    Both work well for online transactions.
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      Ok good. I was not sure, if GitHub wants credit card or is fine with debit card with enabled online payments.
      - gray_-_wolf 4y ago
        In the linked issue someone tried debit card and it did not work. I have no idea if that was isolated issue or wider problem.
      - nicolaslem 4y ago
        I have lived all my life with only a debit card, the only two instances I experienced of debit card being refused is when booking hotels abroad and renting cars abroad. So I am pretty sure Github will gladly accept debit cards.
        Maken 4y ago
        I only had issues with car rental using a debit card in the USA. Debit cards now let merchants "freeze" funds in advance just like a credit card, but that seems to work only in the EU.
pmontra 4y ago
Do you mean that people usually have bank accounts with only a debit card or do you write about people with no bank accounts?
- dncornholio 4y ago
  In EU, all people have a debit card. Only few have a credit card too.
- marcyb5st 4y ago
  The former. It's pretty well established to have just a debit card that for does almost everything a credit card can do. I think in most EU you can get a similar set-up.
- wiredone 4y ago
  Visa and Mastercard debit. Google it. Welcome to 2023
- wongarsu 4y ago
  People usualy have bank accounts with debit cards, but often using schemes like maestro or v-pay, which are great for in-person payments and have lower fees than VISA or MasterCard, but don't have a credit card number and can't be used in online purchases. Traditionally banks charge about $20/year extra for an actual VISA/MasterCard debit or credit card, though this has started to change. And of course the speed of change varies wildly by country, in some debit/credit cards are already widespread, in others not so much.
- johannes1234321 4y ago
  Yes, debit card is the norm. Germany quite early had the EC/Giro card system as a default feature for any bank account. (Nowadays Maestro owned by MasterCard) Which was cheap and quick. Back in the 90ties credit cards were rare and only used by people travelling to U.S. or other specific needs. But I think credit cards are way more spread these days and many banks leave the old system.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  I also have virtual debit card only and making all my online payments with it. My bank had a phase cca 5 years ago when they were offering credit cards to people, but they stopped completely as they weren't able to tell people why they should be using credit cards instead of debit cards - from end user perspective in EU, there is no difference between those two.
openplatypus 4y ago
> In Germany, most people don't have a credit card because you don't need one in daily life. Highly inaccurate. We don't have typical Credit Cards, but Debit Card acting as Credit Card for online transactions are the norm.
- lima 4y ago
  Still much less common to have that vs. a Paypal account :(
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  VPAY cards like Postbank or Deutsche Bank (the biggest commercial bank) don't work with GitHub.
voytec 4y ago
> In Germany, most people don't have a credit card because you don't need one in daily life. Same in Poland. I vaguely remember not being able to pay for something online with Visa Debit or Mastercard Debit something like 15 years ago. The cards were issued by Polish banks. From my understanding, the situation in Germany is similar regarding card payments - debit cards have the same payment functionality as a credit cards.
franga2000 4y ago
Are you talking about actual credit cards or just using the term to mean payment cards in general? Regular "debit" cards generally don't have memberships or payment fees and can be used online anywhere credit cards are accepted, because from the vendor's perspective, they're the same thing.
Maken 4y ago
Like other people have said, in Europe most banks give you a MasterCard/Visa debit card with your bank account, which work in virtually every online transaction without issue and don't charge (the sender) any fee. I would even say that with services like SEPA payments and Bizum, banks have caught up with tech and made platforms like PayPal/Stripe/Square essentially obsolete.
- seydor 4y ago
  Banks withhold fees for cards however, of the order of 2%
- realworldperson 4y ago
  [dead]
- xvilka 4y ago
  SEPA is regional, while PayPal and Stripe are global. Until (if ever) it will become global, it's no alternative by any means.
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  While that is correct, last time I tried, GitHub would reject Debit Cards for recurring payments and only accept true Credit Cards.
elAhmo 4y ago
I have never owned a credit card, but have owned cards issued by five different countries, and I never had a problem where specifically credit card was required as a payment. Including Germany, where exists a number of neobanks that have free accounts which include a debit card. Thinking about it, I haven't met anyone in my life that doesn't have a card (regardless whether it is debit or credit).
mtmail 4y ago
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096803/credit-card-and-debit-card-number-in-germany/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096803/credit-card-and-... reports 38m credit cards, 121m debit cards. German population is 84m. So "most people don't have credit card" might be true but it's still a lot. I'd expect - without having data to back it up - the group using Github Sponsors (who know what Github is) have credit cards.
lynx23 4y ago
At least for me, PayPal is outgoing. Used to use it for almost 20 years. But when they started to randomly verify identity with SMS TAN code, I moved to ApplePay wherever possible, and am no longer willing to use PayPal. Besides, at least in my area, banks are deploying debitcards finally, so there is actually no need for a classical credit card anymore either. Good, everything that allows me to ditch PayPal is a step forward.

DeWilde 4y ago

That might be a Germam specific thing, right over the border in Czechia cards are omni-present. Plus you have e-banks like Revolut.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
But those are debit cards, not credit cards.
- openplatypus 4y ago
  Both work well for online transactions.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    Ok good. I was not sure, if GitHub wants credit card or is fine with debit card with enabled online payments.
    - gray_-_wolf 4y ago
      In the linked issue someone tried debit card and it did not work. I have no idea if that was isolated issue or wider problem.
    - nicolaslem 4y ago
      I have lived all my life with only a debit card, the only two instances I experienced of debit card being refused is when booking hotels abroad and renting cars abroad. So I am pretty sure Github will gladly accept debit cards.
      - Maken 4y ago
        I only had issues with car rental using a debit card in the USA. Debit cards now let merchants "freeze" funds in advance just like a credit card, but that seems to work only in the EU.

pmontra 4y ago

Do you mean that people usually have bank accounts with only a debit card or do you write about people with no bank accounts?

dncornholio 4y ago
In EU, all people have a debit card. Only few have a credit card too.
marcyb5st 4y ago
The former. It's pretty well established to have just a debit card that for does almost everything a credit card can do. I think in most EU you can get a similar set-up.
wiredone 4y ago
Visa and Mastercard debit. Google it. Welcome to 2023
wongarsu 4y ago
People usualy have bank accounts with debit cards, but often using schemes like maestro or v-pay, which are great for in-person payments and have lower fees than VISA or MasterCard, but don't have a credit card number and can't be used in online purchases. Traditionally banks charge about $20/year extra for an actual VISA/MasterCard debit or credit card, though this has started to change. And of course the speed of change varies wildly by country, in some debit/credit cards are already widespread, in others not so much.
johannes1234321 4y ago
Yes, debit card is the norm. Germany quite early had the EC/Giro card system as a default feature for any bank account. (Nowadays Maestro owned by MasterCard) Which was cheap and quick. Back in the 90ties credit cards were rare and only used by people travelling to U.S. or other specific needs. But I think credit cards are way more spread these days and many banks leave the old system.
TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
I also have virtual debit card only and making all my online payments with it. My bank had a phase cca 5 years ago when they were offering credit cards to people, but they stopped completely as they weren't able to tell people why they should be using credit cards instead of debit cards - from end user perspective in EU, there is no difference between those two.

openplatypus 4y ago

> In Germany, most people don't have a credit card because you don't need one in daily life. Highly inaccurate. We don't have typical Credit Cards, but Debit Card acting as Credit Card for online transactions are the norm.

lima 4y ago
Still much less common to have that vs. a Paypal account :(
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fxtentacle 4y ago
VPAY cards like Postbank or Deutsche Bank (the biggest commercial bank) don't work with GitHub.

voytec 4y ago

> In Germany, most people don't have a credit card because you don't need one in daily life. Same in Poland. I vaguely remember not being able to pay for something online with Visa Debit or Mastercard Debit something like 15 years ago. The cards were issued by Polish banks. From my understanding, the situation in Germany is similar regarding card payments - debit cards have the same payment functionality as a credit cards.

franga2000 4y ago

Are you talking about actual credit cards or just using the term to mean payment cards in general? Regular "debit" cards generally don't have memberships or payment fees and can be used online anywhere credit cards are accepted, because from the vendor's perspective, they're the same thing.

Maken 4y ago

Like other people have said, in Europe most banks give you a MasterCard/Visa debit card with your bank account, which work in virtually every online transaction without issue and don't charge (the sender) any fee. I would even say that with services like SEPA payments and Bizum, banks have caught up with tech and made platforms like PayPal/Stripe/Square essentially obsolete.

seydor 4y ago
Banks withhold fees for cards however, of the order of 2%
realworldperson 4y ago
[dead]
xvilka 4y ago
SEPA is regional, while PayPal and Stripe are global. Until (if ever) it will become global, it's no alternative by any means.
fxtentacle 4y ago
While that is correct, last time I tried, GitHub would reject Debit Cards for recurring payments and only accept true Credit Cards.

elAhmo 4y ago

I have never owned a credit card, but have owned cards issued by five different countries, and I never had a problem where specifically credit card was required as a payment. Including Germany, where exists a number of neobanks that have free accounts which include a debit card. Thinking about it, I haven't met anyone in my life that doesn't have a card (regardless whether it is debit or credit).

mtmail 4y ago

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096803/credit-card-and-debit-card-number-in-germany/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096803/credit-card-and-... reports 38m credit cards, 121m debit cards. German population is 84m. So "most people don't have credit card" might be true but it's still a lot. I'd expect - without having data to back it up - the group using Github Sponsors (who know what Github is) have credit cards.

lynx23 4y ago

At least for me, PayPal is outgoing. Used to use it for almost 20 years. But when they started to randomly verify identity with SMS TAN code, I moved to ApplePay wherever possible, and am no longer willing to use PayPal. Besides, at least in my area, banks are deploying debitcards finally, so there is actually no need for a classical credit card anymore either. Good, everything that allows me to ditch PayPal is a step forward.