4 ms·

It should be noted (since "over Canada" could give the impression of an invasive action, and the article makes no further clarification) that it was Canadian PM

It should be noted (since "over Canada" could give the impression of an invasive action, and the article makes no further clarification) that it was Canadian PM Trudeau who gave the order for this object to be shot down, and explicitly authorized US planes to do so if they reached it first.

caiob 4y ago
[flagged]
- jakear 4y ago
  You're shadowbanned btw. Vouched because this seems to comply with guidelines. Edit: gone again. I tried. But yeah your past 2 years of comments are all [dead]. Not sure if you knew that.
  - eli 4y ago
    The comment is off topic hyperbole about politics.
    - jakear 4y ago
      The question of why US forces are being called upon to shoot objects in Canadian airspace is hardly off topic on a post about US forces shooting down objects in Canadian airspace.
      - jakear 4y ago
        That said, the claim that Trudeau has slashed funding doesn't seem to be backed by this source https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-spending-defense-budget https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-sp... The question of why the US was called to shoot this is still open.
      - rpeden 4y ago
        Due to NORAD, Canada and the continental U.S. are a shared air defense zone. In this case, USAF had been tracking/following the balloon since before it crossed from Alaska into the Yukon, so they although F-18s from Cold Lake had been dispatched, the U.S. F-22s already on-scene took the shot.
      - mrguyorama 4y ago
        Canada has openly encouraged US air power in it's air space since the cold war. They really like the idea of sharing defense with the US. We have a bunch of early warning radars in their territory, and share lots of info about them.
- peeters 4y ago
  > You make it sound like Trudeau did a noble thing here when he had no other option. I honestly don't know how I could have made my clarifying the basic context of the story sound more politically neutral. Maybe you have some suggestions?
- WoahNoun 4y ago
  Do you have a source for that? A quick google search shows the opposite. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/military-expenditure#:~:text=Military%20Expenditure%20in%20Canada%20averaged,updated%20on%20February%20of%202023 https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/military-expenditure#:~:.... https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-spending-defense-budget https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-sp... https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=CA https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locat...
Jtsummers 4y ago
I have no desire to vouch for the sibling comment (currently dead), but not being Canadian I was curious about their claim (I don't generally track budget details of other countries, sorry). https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.CD?end=2021&locations=CA&start=1960&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.CD?end=2021... - Military spending in current USD https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?end=2021&locations=CA&start=1960&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?end=2... - Military spending as percent of GDP Trudeau has been the Canadian PM since 2015 (end of year) and other, than 2016 and 2019, military spending has gone up every year. Over his time as PM there has been a net increase in military spending. The biggest jump was $4.5 billion in 2017, from $17.74 billion to $22.27 billion. It's interesting to see claims targeting a particular politician show up that are so easily shown to be false. What's the point?
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  I think the point is that the Canadian military has been due for tons and tons of upgrades and needs a lot of new equipment. That goes for the navy, but especially for the airforce. Just maintaining a constant spend (relative to GDP) is not enough when you have tons of 40-50 year old equipment (ships, airplanes, vehicules) all reaching their end of life at the same time. He also slashed some procurement programs (a new F-35 fleet, some ships) very early on that would've turned out to be very, very useful in retrospect. (I personally don't think we should spend anything but the bare minimum in defense here in Canada, since we obviously depend on our neighbors anyways. But that's the argument for saying that Trudeau neglected the armed forces, as far as I understand it).
  - Jtsummers 4y ago
    The claim was Trudeau had defunded the military. Mismanaged is a different claim. A 25% budget increase in one year is hardly defunding.
GalenErso 4y ago
One would need more information about the exact chain of events. Did NORAD call (not necessarily an actual telephone call) Trudeau and say "Mr. Prime Minister, we have an unidentified object in this location and we recommend to take it down. What is your decision?", "Here's the object and the following options: shoot, follow, let go. What is your decision?", or "Here's the object. What's your decision?" Yes, Trudeau gave the order, but his judgment was undoubtedly influenced by the substance and the manner of the information provided to him and his advisors. It gets more complicated if Trudeau debated the matter with members of his cabinet, as he almost certainly did.

caiob 4y ago

[flagged]

jakear 4y ago
You're shadowbanned btw. Vouched because this seems to comply with guidelines. Edit: gone again. I tried. But yeah your past 2 years of comments are all [dead]. Not sure if you knew that.
- eli 4y ago
  The comment is off topic hyperbole about politics.
  - jakear 4y ago
    The question of why US forces are being called upon to shoot objects in Canadian airspace is hardly off topic on a post about US forces shooting down objects in Canadian airspace.
    - jakear 4y ago
      That said, the claim that Trudeau has slashed funding doesn't seem to be backed by this source https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-spending-defense-budget https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-sp... The question of why the US was called to shoot this is still open.
    - rpeden 4y ago
      Due to NORAD, Canada and the continental U.S. are a shared air defense zone. In this case, USAF had been tracking/following the balloon since before it crossed from Alaska into the Yukon, so they although F-18s from Cold Lake had been dispatched, the U.S. F-22s already on-scene took the shot.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      Canada has openly encouraged US air power in it's air space since the cold war. They really like the idea of sharing defense with the US. We have a bunch of early warning radars in their territory, and share lots of info about them.
peeters 4y ago
> You make it sound like Trudeau did a noble thing here when he had no other option. I honestly don't know how I could have made my clarifying the basic context of the story sound more politically neutral. Maybe you have some suggestions?
WoahNoun 4y ago
Do you have a source for that? A quick google search shows the opposite. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/military-expenditure#:~:text=Military%20Expenditure%20in%20Canada%20averaged,updated%20on%20February%20of%202023 https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/military-expenditure#:~:.... https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-spending-defense-budget https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/military-sp... https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=CA https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locat...

Jtsummers 4y ago

I have no desire to vouch for the sibling comment (currently dead), but not being Canadian I was curious about their claim (I don't generally track budget details of other countries, sorry). https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.CD?end=2021&locations=CA&start=1960&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.CD?end=2021... - Military spending in current USD https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?end=2021&locations=CA&start=1960&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?end=2... - Military spending as percent of GDP Trudeau has been the Canadian PM since 2015 (end of year) and other, than 2016 and 2019, military spending has gone up every year. Over his time as PM there has been a net increase in military spending. The biggest jump was $4.5 billion in 2017, from $17.74 billion to $22.27 billion. It's interesting to see claims targeting a particular politician show up that are so easily shown to be false. What's the point?

mardifoufs 4y ago
I think the point is that the Canadian military has been due for tons and tons of upgrades and needs a lot of new equipment. That goes for the navy, but especially for the airforce. Just maintaining a constant spend (relative to GDP) is not enough when you have tons of 40-50 year old equipment (ships, airplanes, vehicules) all reaching their end of life at the same time. He also slashed some procurement programs (a new F-35 fleet, some ships) very early on that would've turned out to be very, very useful in retrospect. (I personally don't think we should spend anything but the bare minimum in defense here in Canada, since we obviously depend on our neighbors anyways. But that's the argument for saying that Trudeau neglected the armed forces, as far as I understand it).
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  The claim was Trudeau had defunded the military. Mismanaged is a different claim. A 25% budget increase in one year is hardly defunding.

GalenErso 4y ago

One would need more information about the exact chain of events. Did NORAD call (not necessarily an actual telephone call) Trudeau and say "Mr. Prime Minister, we have an unidentified object in this location and we recommend to take it down. What is your decision?", "Here's the object and the following options: shoot, follow, let go. What is your decision?", or "Here's the object. What's your decision?" Yes, Trudeau gave the order, but his judgment was undoubtedly influenced by the substance and the manner of the information provided to him and his advisors. It gets more complicated if Trudeau debated the matter with members of his cabinet, as he almost certainly did.