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And safety? Most of these points make sense. But the article was bragging about them raising costs. Which made it sound like they were at parity, not that th

by taeric 4y ago

And safety? Most of these points make sense. But the article was bragging about them raising costs. Which made it sound like they were at parity, not that they undercut. Do they get extra subsidies from the government? Or are they cheaper to make? If cheaper to make, why?

ggm 4y ago
> And safety? NCAP. google it. they're 5 star rated. > Do they get extra subsidies from the government? Or are they cheaper to make? Almost certainly yes. And, very possibly yes (to build cost) but also no: The rate of profit per car in Tesla is 9x normal. (or some other fantastic number). Tesla has extreme price:cost mismatch, and is coining it hand over fist. BYD are happy with more normal rate of profit, and are aggressively building market share. They're different games. The endpoint is unclear but in the meantime what BYD do, suits me as a future customer. It would be cheaper for two basic reasons: Its in an economy with different costs of labour (China) and different paths to it's supply chain for Batteries and inputs. Tesla is also in that economy now, making the 3 in volume. Its using modified battery tech from that marketplace. It still can't make a car for the same pricepoint, or if it can, it's decided not to. My bet is that a Tesla IS more expensive to make because of a higher chipcount for all the foo-fah around FSD and things which BYD is saying it's market doesn't want right now. But, that would be marginal to engine and battery and body cost. I suspect the fantastic (truly! awesome) single-press bodyparts in Tesla are cheaper in the long run, but for now, have a massive sunk cost to recover against traditional robot-welded bodies. btw, BYD operate in an economy where employer-employee pay and conditions negotiations are quite different. That said, they do recognize Unions. Tesla likes to believe they don't matter. They're wrong.
- taeric 4y ago
  Apologies, missed this. I see they are 5 star rated, but I don't know how to compare two 5 star rated things. :D As an easy example, Volvo is one that has been consistently ahead of the pack in safety. Such that I would more than cede they win at safety compared to cheaper cars. Even at the same rating.
quantified 4y ago
Are you asking about safety with respect to the Chinese market or the US market? Safe enough for China means selling into that big market.
- ggm 4y ago
  https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/atto+3/46635 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/atto+3/46635 Thats the EU NCAP rating. Australia, there's a kerfuffle about something, like front seat child restraint mounts, which is being resolved. TL;DR yes, standards might be laxer in China mainland, but this vehicle meets European safety norms: it has to, to be viable for worldwide import. This is a pretty rigorous crash test/resiliency/safety test.
- taeric 4y ago
  I was only asking relative to Tesla, honestly. Though, I grant I'm curious why the cars aren't available in the US?

by taeric 4y ago

ggm 4y ago

> And safety? NCAP. google it. they're 5 star rated. > Do they get extra subsidies from the government? Or are they cheaper to make? Almost certainly yes. And, very possibly yes (to build cost) but also no: The rate of profit per car in Tesla is 9x normal. (or some other fantastic number). Tesla has extreme price:cost mismatch, and is coining it hand over fist. BYD are happy with more normal rate of profit, and are aggressively building market share. They're different games. The endpoint is unclear but in the meantime what BYD do, suits me as a future customer. It would be cheaper for two basic reasons: Its in an economy with different costs of labour (China) and different paths to it's supply chain for Batteries and inputs. Tesla is also in that economy now, making the 3 in volume. Its using modified battery tech from that marketplace. It still can't make a car for the same pricepoint, or if it can, it's decided not to. My bet is that a Tesla IS more expensive to make because of a higher chipcount for all the foo-fah around FSD and things which BYD is saying it's market doesn't want right now. But, that would be marginal to engine and battery and body cost. I suspect the fantastic (truly! awesome) single-press bodyparts in Tesla are cheaper in the long run, but for now, have a massive sunk cost to recover against traditional robot-welded bodies. btw, BYD operate in an economy where employer-employee pay and conditions negotiations are quite different. That said, they do recognize Unions. Tesla likes to believe they don't matter. They're wrong.

taeric 4y ago
Apologies, missed this. I see they are 5 star rated, but I don't know how to compare two 5 star rated things. :D As an easy example, Volvo is one that has been consistently ahead of the pack in safety. Such that I would more than cede they win at safety compared to cheaper cars. Even at the same rating.

quantified 4y ago

Are you asking about safety with respect to the Chinese market or the US market? Safe enough for China means selling into that big market.

ggm 4y ago
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/atto+3/46635 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/atto+3/46635 Thats the EU NCAP rating. Australia, there's a kerfuffle about something, like front seat child restraint mounts, which is being resolved. TL;DR yes, standards might be laxer in China mainland, but this vehicle meets European safety norms: it has to, to be viable for worldwide import. This is a pretty rigorous crash test/resiliency/safety test.
taeric 4y ago
I was only asking relative to Tesla, honestly. Though, I grant I'm curious why the cars aren't available in the US?