5 ms·

OK, so that's trying to stop us from being able to use an average USB cable to do anything but charge.

by rfoo 4y ago

CubsFan1060 4y ago
Yup. Which satisfies the EU law and behaves the same to lightning cables. I don't see anything in the EU law that says every single device has to interoperate with every accessory.
- mqus 4y ago
  While this may be true, it is just a short-term solution because the EU will just change the law again if it annoys too much. It would be far more easy for all of us to not only follow the letter of the law but also its spirit. But this wouldn't be a very Apple thing to do.
  - CubsFan1060 4y ago
    The stated goals of the eu law are about ewaste. Can you explain how you think the spirit of the law is that every device needs to support all accessories? Do earbuds have to support external hard drives?
sowuttho 4y ago
FWIW personally fine with Apple MITM the verification process. USB cables available online from any arbitrary retailer could be so wildly out of spec they burn out gadgets, or include some phone home thing. Of course technologists will scoff as of course they’re the only people on the planet.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  The whole Apple playbook these days: charge everyone a troll toll in the name of safety
  - bozhark 4y ago
    these days?
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    And consumers are fine with that proposal because they end up with stuff that actually works.
    - mattigames 4y ago
      But they are fine with it only because those safety mechanisms are not enforced by goverments already, and of course Apple is more than happy to be the one in charge of enforcing it.
      - sundaeofshock 4y ago
        Finish the thought. If governments did the enforcement, Apple wouldn’t have to do so.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        For things with actual safety issues like batteries and power bricks, the government should be regulating them more. For things like "does this usb-c cable meet the required specs to provide consistent video and high speed data transfers?", this seems like exactly the kind of thing private companies can validate.
    - rhaway84773 4y ago
      If consumers are fine then the vast majority of cables I’d see people owning would be Apple cables. That’s rarely the case. Most people are buying 3rd party cables even to use with Apple devices and I doubt any but a small minority even know what MFI is, never mind basing their purchasing decision on it. Edit: To add to the anecdata, here’s a Reddit thread on the iPhone subreddit where the majority of folks are responding by saying they’re buying non Apple chargers. https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/b4k8j2/do_you_guys_use_oem_or_3rd_party_chargers_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/b4k8j2/do_you_guys_...
- ars 4y ago
  You have it backwards. Charging will be permitted with any cable - only data communication will be blocked unless you pay the Apple tax. This helps exactly no one - except Apple of course.
  - sowuttho 4y ago
    [dead]
  - scarface74 4y ago
    None of my Lightning cables are “Apple certified”. They all transfer data find. These are my “universal charging cables” https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092ZT8CJ9 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092ZT8CJ9 - USB A/USB C on one end - USB C/Lightning on the other They transfer data at USB 2 speeds But my truly universal cables are these https://a.co/d/4NVYrmN https://a.co/d/4NVYrmN - USB A/USB C on one end - lightning/USB C/MicroUSB on the other end - 10 Gbps data - 100W charging - video over USB C for my portable display that gets power and video over 1 cable These are thicker and less convenient than the first ones.
- joecool1029 4y ago
  >USB cables available online from any arbitrary retailer could be so wildly out of spec they burn out gadgets, or include some phone home thing. Apple's tristar (or whatever they call it now on new models) should reject anything out of spec, I don't think a cable should be ultimately trusted that it will work due to very real world wear scenarios. Phone home is probably tin foil hat thinking.
  - haliskerbas 4y ago
    > Phone home is probably tin foil hat thinking. Probably, but also be careful which cable you're using! https://shop.hak5.org/products/omg-cable https://shop.hak5.org/products/omg-cable This one is physically exactly the same as an Apple Lighting cable, but contains a WiFi Server and a bunch of other doodads
    - happymellon 4y ago
      Wow, that's a really good price for such a neat hack.
erik_seaberg 4y ago
USB stacks seem to have a lot of vulnerabilities. I would unironically prefer a non-data cable that just did negotiated power delivery, so I wouldn’t need to carry a trusted charger.

OK, so that's trying to stop us from being able to use an average USB cable to do anything but charge.

by rfoo 4y ago

OK, so that's trying to stop us from being able to use an average USB cable to do anything but charge.

Yup. Which satisfies the EU law and behaves the same to lightning cables. I don't see anything in the EU law that says every single device has to interoperate with every accessory.

mqus 4y ago
While this may be true, it is just a short-term solution because the EU will just change the law again if it annoys too much. It would be far more easy for all of us to not only follow the letter of the law but also its spirit. But this wouldn't be a very Apple thing to do.
- CubsFan1060 4y ago
  The stated goals of the eu law are about ewaste. Can you explain how you think the spirit of the law is that every device needs to support all accessories? Do earbuds have to support external hard drives?

sowuttho 4y ago

FWIW personally fine with Apple MITM the verification process. USB cables available online from any arbitrary retailer could be so wildly out of spec they burn out gadgets, or include some phone home thing. Of course technologists will scoff as of course they’re the only people on the planet.

fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
The whole Apple playbook these days: charge everyone a troll toll in the name of safety
- bozhark 4y ago
  these days?
- Gigachad 4y ago
  And consumers are fine with that proposal because they end up with stuff that actually works.
  - mattigames 4y ago
    But they are fine with it only because those safety mechanisms are not enforced by goverments already, and of course Apple is more than happy to be the one in charge of enforcing it.
    - sundaeofshock 4y ago
      Finish the thought. If governments did the enforcement, Apple wouldn’t have to do so.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      For things with actual safety issues like batteries and power bricks, the government should be regulating them more. For things like "does this usb-c cable meet the required specs to provide consistent video and high speed data transfers?", this seems like exactly the kind of thing private companies can validate.
  - rhaway84773 4y ago
    If consumers are fine then the vast majority of cables I’d see people owning would be Apple cables. That’s rarely the case. Most people are buying 3rd party cables even to use with Apple devices and I doubt any but a small minority even know what MFI is, never mind basing their purchasing decision on it. Edit: To add to the anecdata, here’s a Reddit thread on the iPhone subreddit where the majority of folks are responding by saying they’re buying non Apple chargers. https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/b4k8j2/do_you_guys_use_oem_or_3rd_party_chargers_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/b4k8j2/do_you_guys_...
ars 4y ago
You have it backwards. Charging will be permitted with any cable - only data communication will be blocked unless you pay the Apple tax. This helps exactly no one - except Apple of course.
- sowuttho 4y ago
  [dead]
- scarface74 4y ago
  None of my Lightning cables are “Apple certified”. They all transfer data find. These are my “universal charging cables” https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092ZT8CJ9 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092ZT8CJ9 - USB A/USB C on one end - USB C/Lightning on the other They transfer data at USB 2 speeds But my truly universal cables are these https://a.co/d/4NVYrmN https://a.co/d/4NVYrmN - USB A/USB C on one end - lightning/USB C/MicroUSB on the other end - 10 Gbps data - 100W charging - video over USB C for my portable display that gets power and video over 1 cable These are thicker and less convenient than the first ones.
joecool1029 4y ago
>USB cables available online from any arbitrary retailer could be so wildly out of spec they burn out gadgets, or include some phone home thing. Apple's tristar (or whatever they call it now on new models) should reject anything out of spec, I don't think a cable should be ultimately trusted that it will work due to very real world wear scenarios. Phone home is probably tin foil hat thinking.
- haliskerbas 4y ago
  > Phone home is probably tin foil hat thinking. Probably, but also be careful which cable you're using! https://shop.hak5.org/products/omg-cable https://shop.hak5.org/products/omg-cable This one is physically exactly the same as an Apple Lighting cable, but contains a WiFi Server and a bunch of other doodads
  - happymellon 4y ago
    Wow, that's a really good price for such a neat hack.

erik_seaberg 4y ago

USB stacks seem to have a lot of vulnerabilities. I would unironically prefer a non-data cable that just did negotiated power delivery, so I wouldn’t need to carry a trusted charger.