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Before everyone freaks out, consider that it's highly likely that: * All USBC Cables will work for charging * Probably all USBC cables will work for connectin
by CubsFan1060 4y ago
Before everyone freaks out, consider that it's highly likely that:
* All USBC Cables will work for charging
* Probably all USBC cables will work for connecting to accessories
* Data will only be allowed to pass to a certified accessory
I think this is more likely to be very careful about what accessories you can use versus trying to stop you from being able to use an average usb cable to charge.
- rfoo 4y agoOK, so that's trying to stop us from being able to use an average USB cable to do anything but charge.
- CubsFan1060 4y agoYup. Which satisfies the EU law and behaves the same to lightning cables. I don't see anything in the EU law that says every single device has to interoperate with every accessory.
- mqus 4y agoWhile this may be true, it is just a short-term solution because the EU will just change the law again if it annoys too much. It would be far more easy for all of us to not only follow the letter of the law but also its spirit. But this wouldn't be a very Apple thing to do.
- CubsFan1060 4y agoThe stated goals of the eu law are about ewaste. Can you explain how you think the spirit of the law is that every device needs to support all accessories? Do earbuds have to support external hard drives?
- sowuttho 4y agoFWIW personally fine with Apple MITM the verification process. USB cables available online from any arbitrary retailer could be so wildly out of spec they burn out gadgets, or include some phone home thing. Of course technologists will scoff as of course they’re the only people on the planet.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y agoThe whole Apple playbook these days: charge everyone a troll toll in the name of safety
- bozhark 4y agothese days?
- Gigachad 4y agoAnd consumers are fine with that proposal because they end up with stuff that actually works.
- mattigames 4y agoBut they are fine with it only because those safety mechanisms are not enforced by goverments already, and of course Apple is more than happy to be the one in charge of enforcing it.
- sundaeofshock 4y agoFinish the thought. If governments did the enforcement, Apple wouldn’t have to do so.
- Gigachad 4y agoFor things with actual safety issues like batteries and power bricks, the government should be regulating them more. For things like "does this usb-c cable meet the required specs to provide consistent video and high speed data transfers?", this seems like exactly the kind of thing private companies can validate.
- rhaway84773 4y agoIf consumers are fine then the vast majority of cables I’d see people owning would be Apple cables. That’s rarely the case. Most people are buying 3rd party cables even to use with Apple devices and I doubt any but a small minority even know what MFI is, never mind basing their purchasing decision on it. Edit: To add to the anecdata, here’s a Reddit thread on the iPhone subreddit where the majority of folks are responding by saying they’re buying non Apple chargers. https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/b4k8j2/do_you_guys_use_oem_or_3rd_party_chargers_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/b4k8j2/do_you_guys_...
- erik_seaberg 4y agoUSB stacks seem to have a lot of vulnerabilities. I would unironically prefer a non-data cable that just did negotiated power delivery, so I wouldn’t need to carry a trusted charger.
- onion2k 4y agoData will only be allowed to pass to a certified accessory Theoretically it should be possible for a cable to spoof the ID of what it's connected to though, right?
- CubsFan1060 4y agoThat was why I had it as a probably. I don't feel qualified enough to comment on what is or what is not possible there.
- error503 4y agoLightning accessories used crypto-based verification. I would be surprised if the next iteration for USB-C is not significantly stronger. So more than a simple spoof / replay attack will likely be required.
- CharlesW 4y ago> Theoretically it should be possible for a cable to spoof the ID of what it's connected to though, right? Yes, but the authentication doesn't appear to be simple ID spoofing. This is from the announcement of the standard they're using: "The USB 3.0 Promoter Group today announced the USB Type-C Authentication specification, defining cryptographic-based authentication for USB Type-C chargers and devices. Using this protocol, host systems can confirm the authenticity of a USB device or USB charger, including such product aspects as the descriptors/capabilities and certification status. All of this happens right at the moment a wired connection is made – before inappropriate power or data can be transferred." https://usb.org/sites/default/files/article_files/USB_Type-C_Authentication_PR_FINAL.pdf https://usb.org/sites/default/files/article_files/USB_Type-C...
- layer8 4y agoWouldn’t want to transfer any inappropriate data, haha.
- palata 4y agoNo, I don't think so. At least for MFi (which this rumor suggests they will extend to USB-C), there is an authentication co-processor. That's not just an ID, it's cryptography. So theoretically it could be possible to break the authentication, but in practice, we can assume it's at least very hard.
- goosedragons 4y agoGotta hold onto those $60 HDMI adapter sales I guess... The ecosystem of USB C accessories is one of the best parts. Lightning accessories are incredibly expensive and incredibly limited by comparison.
- greenknight 4y agodoesnt their 'lightning to hdmi' adapter, really a hack with an arm chip with ram in there to transcode the output from the phone into a hdmi signal?
- AdamJacobMuller 4y agoIt certainly was. It might not be anymore but it worked fairly well so I'm not sure why they would change it.
- kalleboo 4y agoIt still is since Lightning doesn't have the bandwidth for a raw HDMI signal, only a compressed video stream
- RulerOf 4y agoIt's basically an airplay receiver with an HDMI output.
- scarface74 4y agoDoes anyone not comparison shop? https://a.co/d/2KdWjH9 https://a.co/d/2KdWjH9
- goosedragons 4y agoNot at all. Let's take a look at a USB C option: https://www.amazon.com/Multiport-Adapter-Compatible-MacBook-Devices/dp/B08MZZVFX6/ https://www.amazon.com/Multiport-Adapter-Compatible-MacBook-... For many many years there wasn't a reliable seeming 3rd party lightning to HDMI adapter. I bought mine in about 2019ish? And besides Apple the only one I could find was a sketchy clone of Apple's.
- AdamJacobMuller 4y agoI suspect it will also limit non-certified USB-C charging cables to some hopefully-not-terrible charging speed. I see this as a general win since mfi seems to be reasonably open and USB-C has a lot of cheap cables floating around. USB-C is annoying and I don't like having to worry about about my cable frying my device. https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/smart-office/using-the-wrong-usb-c-cable-can-damage-your-tech-heres-how-to-avoid-that/ https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/smart-office/using-the...
- AlchemistCamp 4y ago> USB-C is annoying and I don't like having to worry about about my cable frying my device. Yikes. I've never worried about that until reading this comment.
- charwalker 4y agoIt hasn't been a major issue since the first few years of general use. Some people got burned and remember but not the other 99 cables that were fine. You should still by from a trusted or well reviewed source/manufacturer. My issue is the cheaper long cables I have all work but charging is not fast, just normal speed.
- rektide 4y agoYou should not fear the FUD. There's incredibly miniscule danger. People buy shitty uncertified ultra-cheap USB cables by the millions & there's been next to no problems. Your devices will be fine. Almost all devices & chargers have quite good safety measures built in, so at worst, stuff doesn't charge. USB-C has such a loud hate-mob after it. And it's really just not bad. It really mostly is great.
- CubsFan1060 4y agoMy two biggest complaints: 1). If I have 4 USBC devices, and 1 USBC port, how do I connect them? With previous versions I buy a $10 hub. There are literally zero options to accomplish this with Usbc ( if I am wrong I would love to know about it, this is actually a problem I have) 2). The cables. Some cables support certain data. Some certain power. There are no markings to give me any of this information at all.
- ProAm 4y agoThere is zero reason to restrict transfer speeds to a USB 2.0 level in today's age. This is Apple once again not respecting their customer.
- foepys 4y agoAre there even Android phones out there with USB 3.0 or higher over USB-C? My current gen phone also only support USB 2.0 and it's ridiculously slow to get data off of it. I usually put in an SD card, copy all data over and put the SD card into my PC.
- kllrnohj 4y agoYes, a bunch of Android phones are USB 3.0 or greater.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoAndroid flagships from the last 6 years or so have USB 3.0.
- sgent 4y agoMy understanding is that they would need to redesign the SOC since USB3 wasn't part of the standard A series chips. The few iPad Pro's that have USB3 have an external controller.
- ProAm 4y agoWhy would only two of the four iphone 15 models support the higher speed then? Are they putting in 2 different chips for the same model? I think all of them are using the A17
- palata 4y agoExactly this! I think the MFi chip just has to be on the device, then any cable works. MFi is costly and annoying (Android's AOAP is much easier because there is no paperwork and no key distribution), but it does bring some security (like "I am plugging this authenticated MFi ethernet adapter that was audited and that shouldn't pretend to be a keyboard and do stuff on my behalf")
- BuckyBeaver 4y ago[dead]
- oliwarner 4y ago> * Data will only be allowed to pass to a certified accessory How can you read that as a feature? They want to protect users against themselves? What about a software interface for USB Host options (like OTG, how to present media, etc) is great. Does iOS already have one of those? A proprietary layer that stops you from using USB-C features unless they say it's okay is an abuse of their position. This is a money-grab.
- cryptos 4y agoThis phenomena is calls Stockholm Syndrome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
- palata 4y agoThough I would like it to be more open (like the Android AOAP), I disagree with the "abuse of position". They build a smartphone, they don't have to enable ethernet-over-usb if they don't want to (most Android phones don't). Just like they don't have to add cameras to their smartphones if they don't want to. I guess they can totally say "you can only use MFi-certified ethernet adapter with iOS devices", and this actually brings security ("when you plug an ethernet adapter in your iPhone, you can be sure it won't behave like a keyboard and try to hack you"). Of course I wish everything was more open. But that does not make it an abuse of their position. Most software out there is vendor-locked and proprietary.
- Tschayba 4y ago> Data will only be allowed to pass to a certified accessory Does this mean that there is no possibility of someone would create a cable with some malware in it?
- palata 4y agoThat's a good question! I wonder if the data sent over MFi is signed/encrypted (which would prevent a MITM attack). I could totally imagine it! But at least it somehow protects against a fake accessory with some malware in it, because the accessory has to be authenticated (that I'm sure of).
- tinus_hn 4y agoThat sounds not like they’re limiting it, just that they are not providing drivers for every device under the Sun and are not providing a mechanism to install third party drivers.