4 ms·

You always try to read the law and tick the boxes, and I'm here to tell you its a profoundly uninteresting thing to do when not in the company of lawyers. Nobod

You always try to read the law and tick the boxes, and I'm here to tell you its a profoundly uninteresting thing to do when not in the company of lawyers. Nobody here cares about the formal requirements or motivation behind bail. We care about how this fraudster came to sit at home playing video games and chatting up witnesses all day, while many many others sit in jail as their cases drawl out, and many indeed die there.

tptacek 4y ago
He got there the same way most white collar defendants do. There is less special stuff going on with SBF than people think there is.
- Arainach 4y ago
  Most white collar defendants do not have other people posting their bail for them.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Why do you believe that, and what does it matter? When blue collar defendants go to bail bondsmen, they often specifically demand collateral from other people, to make it more likely the defendant appears.
- vlunkr 4y ago
  The special thing that's going on with SBF is that it's a high-profile story. That sounds like a dumb tautology, but I think it's true. Most people don't know much about white collar crime because it just doesn't come up that often. When a case does become big news, it's worth analyzing it as a case study for how white collar crime is handled in general. The specifics about how he made bail may not be interesting to you, but they obviously are to many other people who don't usually follow this stuff. As an analogy, look at police brutality or sexual harassment. There are thousands of documented instances that all look pretty similar, but occasionally one story, for one reason or another, will explode and shine light on a messed up situation that many people are ignorant of, or misinformed on.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > He got there the same way most white collar defendants do To be fair, blue collar defendants also get much better (financial) terms in the federal system (and often no cash component) than in state systems. The main distinction at work that makes SBF’s case not what people have been trained on by media and common experience is not of wealth/class but of federal vs. state system, when most experience with bail is state not federal and most media portrayals are of (often distorted pictures of the) state systems.
- yeahwhatever10 4y ago
  Ah yes the old "nothing to see here folks!", works every time.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> You always try to read the law and tick the boxes, and I’m here to tell you its a profoundly uninteresting thing to do when not in the company of lawyers. Nobody here cares about the formal requirements or motivation behind bail. We care about how this fraudster came to sit at home playing video games and chatting up witnesses all day, while many many others sit in jail as their cases drawl out, and many indeed die there. He does it because of the formal requirements and motivations behind bail, and particularly how those differ between the federal system and the bulk of the state systems. So, you can not want to talk about the details of formal requirements and motivations, but then you don’t really care about how he got where he is when other accused criminals are treated differently. You just want to vent about the difference without understanding.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  No — they’re interested in how as explored through power dynamics, not how explored through technical analysis of the pretense used. The latter is uninteresting; the former interests the public who is concerned by inequality in our legal system. No amount of screaming “but the pretense type checks!” will be a useful or interesting answer to this discussion about social class.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > No — they’re interested in how as explored through power dynamics The motivations behind bail are the power dynamics. And the difference between the motivations–the power dynamics–in the federal and most state systems are central to the issue here, and are directly reflected in the different formal requirements. Waving those off is choosing ignorance.
JohnFen 4y ago
> Nobody here cares about the formal requirements or motivation behind bail. I do. It's important to know how the the world works. > We care about how this fraudster came to sit at home playing video games and chatting up witnesses all day, while many many others sit in jail as their cases drawl out, and many indeed die there. I care about this, too. But to address this, it's also important to know what the law is, and why.

tptacek 4y ago

He got there the same way most white collar defendants do. There is less special stuff going on with SBF than people think there is.

Arainach 4y ago
Most white collar defendants do not have other people posting their bail for them.
- tptacek 4y ago
  Why do you believe that, and what does it matter? When blue collar defendants go to bail bondsmen, they often specifically demand collateral from other people, to make it more likely the defendant appears.
vlunkr 4y ago
The special thing that's going on with SBF is that it's a high-profile story. That sounds like a dumb tautology, but I think it's true. Most people don't know much about white collar crime because it just doesn't come up that often. When a case does become big news, it's worth analyzing it as a case study for how white collar crime is handled in general. The specifics about how he made bail may not be interesting to you, but they obviously are to many other people who don't usually follow this stuff. As an analogy, look at police brutality or sexual harassment. There are thousands of documented instances that all look pretty similar, but occasionally one story, for one reason or another, will explode and shine light on a messed up situation that many people are ignorant of, or misinformed on.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> He got there the same way most white collar defendants do To be fair, blue collar defendants also get much better (financial) terms in the federal system (and often no cash component) than in state systems. The main distinction at work that makes SBF’s case not what people have been trained on by media and common experience is not of wealth/class but of federal vs. state system, when most experience with bail is state not federal and most media portrayals are of (often distorted pictures of the) state systems.
yeahwhatever10 4y ago
Ah yes the old "nothing to see here folks!", works every time.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> You always try to read the law and tick the boxes, and I’m here to tell you its a profoundly uninteresting thing to do when not in the company of lawyers. Nobody here cares about the formal requirements or motivation behind bail. We care about how this fraudster came to sit at home playing video games and chatting up witnesses all day, while many many others sit in jail as their cases drawl out, and many indeed die there. He does it because of the formal requirements and motivations behind bail, and particularly how those differ between the federal system and the bulk of the state systems. So, you can not want to talk about the details of formal requirements and motivations, but then you don’t really care about how he got where he is when other accused criminals are treated differently. You just want to vent about the difference without understanding.

zmgsabst 4y ago
No — they’re interested in how as explored through power dynamics, not how explored through technical analysis of the pretense used. The latter is uninteresting; the former interests the public who is concerned by inequality in our legal system. No amount of screaming “but the pretense type checks!” will be a useful or interesting answer to this discussion about social class.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > No — they’re interested in how as explored through power dynamics The motivations behind bail are the power dynamics. And the difference between the motivations–the power dynamics–in the federal and most state systems are central to the issue here, and are directly reflected in the different formal requirements. Waving those off is choosing ignorance.

JohnFen 4y ago

> Nobody here cares about the formal requirements or motivation behind bail. I do. It's important to know how the the world works. > We care about how this fraudster came to sit at home playing video games and chatting up witnesses all day, while many many others sit in jail as their cases drawl out, and many indeed die there. I care about this, too. But to address this, it's also important to know what the law is, and why.