7 ms·

I understand that the 3 first statistics include non x86 CPUs

by forty 4y ago

pclmulqdq 4y ago
These numbers are really bad for both AMD and Intel, honestly. It suggests that the x86 server/desktop monopoly is getting crushed in a major way.
- ChuckMcM 4y ago
  Yes: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lowest-cpu-shipments-in-30-years-amd-intel-q2-2022-cpu-market-share https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lowest-cpu-shipments-in-30...
- ekianjo 4y ago
  Where are the non-X86 desktops??
  - WoodenChair 4y ago
    Mac Studio, Mac Mini, iMac for starters.
    - luuurker 4y ago
      Some Chromebooks too. (edit: maybe not "desktop" though)
      - Grazester 4y ago
        Most Chromebook run x86 processors. You would be hard pressed to find one that didn't
        yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        > Most Chromebook run x86 processors. Objectively true. > You would be hard pressed to find one that didn't Eh, that's less true; I own 2 ARM Chromebooks, because I wanted some non-x86 in my life, and neither was hard to find, it just took me actually looking for it.
        toast0 4y ago
        > You would be hard pressed to find one that didn't Search Chromebook on bestbuy, exclude out of stock and sort by price, and you'll see a mix of arm and x86.
        opan 4y ago
        The Samsung Chromebook Plus came out years ago and is ARM. There's also the ASUS C201 which is ARM and has Libreboot support.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        Is a Chromebook a "desktop", or "mobility"? I have a hard time thinking of a Chromebook as a "desktop" PC. Honestly, I think the research firm's divisions are crap. WTF is "mobility" anyway? Why would this not include laptops?
        danans 4y ago
        > I have a hard time thinking of a Chromebook as a "desktop" PC. A Chromebox is a desktop PC. And ChromeOS devices can run a full Debian Linux distro in a VM. What's not desktop about that?
        midoridensha 4y ago
        Smartphones can run a full Debian Linux distro in a VM too, but that doesn't make them desktop PCs.
        danans 4y ago
        Ok. It sits on a desktop, has an external monitor and keyboard and mouse, and let's you run general purpose computing tasks, like compiling a C++ program. You can even plug in a USB printer and scanner. You can get them with 16G of RAM and i7 CPUs. You can put them in dev mode, wipe the OS, and install any Linux distro of your liking. Is that a desktop computer? Or is the definition of desktop computer that it can, say, run Adobe Photoshop natively?
        cvuls 4y ago
        Phones can do most of the things you listed. So a "desktop PC" isn't about its feature set or where you might put it, instead it is a form factor.
        sangnoir 4y ago
        NUCs, Mac Studios and Chromeboxes all have the same form factor. I believe there are All-in-one desktop Chromeboxes as well. The exclusion of desktops running ChromeOS from the desktop category is weird - especially considering they are capable of running Debian Bullseye VMs out of the box (x64 or ARM)
    - datavirtue 4y ago
      Since the M1 release I have really soured on x86. I had no interest in anything else for the last 30years...and certainly had never purchased a $3000 laptop before. I purchased a MacBook Pro last year...zero remorse.
      - OOPMan 4y ago
        Well...when you're spending that much money of course you're not going to feel remorse XD
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    I assume what the numbers actually mean is that desktop market share is shrinking to insignificance (confirmed by a sibling comment), and servers actually have significant competition from ARM now. Edit: Also Macs.
  - lallysingh 4y ago
    An iPad with a keyboard
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    Smartphones. No, seriously. Most peoples' computing needs and desires are satisfied with a phone, they don't actually need a laptop let alone a desktop. It's not that x86 is losing market share, it's that Personal Computers are changing from the desktop/laptop form factor to the smartphone form factor. It's mere coincidence ARM and not x86 powers all those smartphones.
    - mort96 4y ago
      Smartphones aren't counted as desktops in these statistics.
- diamond559 4y ago
  Less than 10% market share= crushed? These arm plans were initiated either before or when Zen was in its infancy. Amazon and others are going to have a real tough time competing with Genoa/Bergamo in server. ISA is unimportant, just ask Jim Keller or Mike Clark, it's all about execution and I'm sorry but you're not going to be able to compete with a team like AMD's. Apple's consumer chips are alright but they are never getting more than 20% of pc market share and are about to be embarrassed by Phoenix APUs. Oh and to the guy here claiming smart phones will replace pcs, go try and type an essay, play a AAA game, browse the internet with multiple tabs, music and discord on all at once on an iphone.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    Amazon doesn't have to compete with AMD on performance, only on TCO. Not having to pay Jim Keller's salary is a good way to reduce your TCO. Graviton generally does win on TCO for most applications today. Also, if 30% of x86 market share corresponds to ~20% of "big processor" market share, that means that non-x86 cores have about 30% market share. European companies are discovering the same thing, too. They have embraced ARM and RISC-V very strongly.
- benj111 4y ago
  I'm not so sure. The pc landscape is very diffuse, just imagine trying to get every windows app onboard with moving to arm. And until they do, the pc manufacturers aren't going to bother making hardware. Games consoles are moving to x86 to make porting easier, even though they have full control of the stack. Unless Google chromebooks up their game, or the pc disappears completely I don't really see arm taking over.
icegreentea2 4y ago
I find that difficult to believe, unless they did something weird like to lump smartphones into mobility. I thought ARM represented like ~5% of server install base, and maybe like 10% of 2022 server sales. Similarly, I understood Chromebooks + Macbooks (the two major laptop ARM products) to be on the order of 25% of laptop sales. These are both real and meaningful chunks of market, but I don't think they're enough to make up for the discrepancy in numbers. Perhaps they are including game consoles. [Edit] - found reporting on 2021 numbers they clearly seem to indicate that the first three sets of numbers are x86 only (https://venturebeat.com/consumer/mercury-research-amd-closes-2021-with-record-x86-cpu-market-share-at-25-6/ https://venturebeat.com/consumer/mercury-research-amd-closes...) The two big extra categories would seem to be game consoles (as suggested by GP), and IoT.

I understand that the 3 first statistics include non x86 CPUs

by forty 4y ago

I understand that the 3 first statistics include non x86 CPUs

These numbers are really bad for both AMD and Intel, honestly. It suggests that the x86 server/desktop monopoly is getting crushed in a major way.

ChuckMcM 4y ago
Yes: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lowest-cpu-shipments-in-30-years-amd-intel-q2-2022-cpu-market-share https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lowest-cpu-shipments-in-30...
ekianjo 4y ago
Where are the non-X86 desktops??
- WoodenChair 4y ago
  Mac Studio, Mac Mini, iMac for starters.
  - luuurker 4y ago
    Some Chromebooks too. (edit: maybe not "desktop" though)
    - Grazester 4y ago
      Most Chromebook run x86 processors. You would be hard pressed to find one that didn't
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        > Most Chromebook run x86 processors. Objectively true. > You would be hard pressed to find one that didn't Eh, that's less true; I own 2 ARM Chromebooks, because I wanted some non-x86 in my life, and neither was hard to find, it just took me actually looking for it.
      - toast0 4y ago
        > You would be hard pressed to find one that didn't Search Chromebook on bestbuy, exclude out of stock and sort by price, and you'll see a mix of arm and x86.
      - opan 4y ago
        The Samsung Chromebook Plus came out years ago and is ARM. There's also the ASUS C201 which is ARM and has Libreboot support.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      Is a Chromebook a "desktop", or "mobility"? I have a hard time thinking of a Chromebook as a "desktop" PC. Honestly, I think the research firm's divisions are crap. WTF is "mobility" anyway? Why would this not include laptops?
      - danans 4y ago
        > I have a hard time thinking of a Chromebook as a "desktop" PC. A Chromebox is a desktop PC. And ChromeOS devices can run a full Debian Linux distro in a VM. What's not desktop about that?
        midoridensha 4y ago
        Smartphones can run a full Debian Linux distro in a VM too, but that doesn't make them desktop PCs.
        danans 4y ago
        Ok. It sits on a desktop, has an external monitor and keyboard and mouse, and let's you run general purpose computing tasks, like compiling a C++ program. You can even plug in a USB printer and scanner. You can get them with 16G of RAM and i7 CPUs. You can put them in dev mode, wipe the OS, and install any Linux distro of your liking. Is that a desktop computer? Or is the definition of desktop computer that it can, say, run Adobe Photoshop natively?
        cvuls 4y ago
        Phones can do most of the things you listed. So a "desktop PC" isn't about its feature set or where you might put it, instead it is a form factor.
        sangnoir 4y ago
        NUCs, Mac Studios and Chromeboxes all have the same form factor. I believe there are All-in-one desktop Chromeboxes as well. The exclusion of desktops running ChromeOS from the desktop category is weird - especially considering they are capable of running Debian Bullseye VMs out of the box (x64 or ARM)
  - datavirtue 4y ago
    Since the M1 release I have really soured on x86. I had no interest in anything else for the last 30years...and certainly had never purchased a $3000 laptop before. I purchased a MacBook Pro last year...zero remorse.
    - OOPMan 4y ago
      Well...when you're spending that much money of course you're not going to feel remorse XD
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  I assume what the numbers actually mean is that desktop market share is shrinking to insignificance (confirmed by a sibling comment), and servers actually have significant competition from ARM now. Edit: Also Macs.
- lallysingh 4y ago
  An iPad with a keyboard
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Smartphones. No, seriously. Most peoples' computing needs and desires are satisfied with a phone, they don't actually need a laptop let alone a desktop. It's not that x86 is losing market share, it's that Personal Computers are changing from the desktop/laptop form factor to the smartphone form factor. It's mere coincidence ARM and not x86 powers all those smartphones.
  - mort96 4y ago
    Smartphones aren't counted as desktops in these statistics.
diamond559 4y ago
Less than 10% market share= crushed? These arm plans were initiated either before or when Zen was in its infancy. Amazon and others are going to have a real tough time competing with Genoa/Bergamo in server. ISA is unimportant, just ask Jim Keller or Mike Clark, it's all about execution and I'm sorry but you're not going to be able to compete with a team like AMD's. Apple's consumer chips are alright but they are never getting more than 20% of pc market share and are about to be embarrassed by Phoenix APUs. Oh and to the guy here claiming smart phones will replace pcs, go try and type an essay, play a AAA game, browse the internet with multiple tabs, music and discord on all at once on an iphone.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  Amazon doesn't have to compete with AMD on performance, only on TCO. Not having to pay Jim Keller's salary is a good way to reduce your TCO. Graviton generally does win on TCO for most applications today. Also, if 30% of x86 market share corresponds to ~20% of "big processor" market share, that means that non-x86 cores have about 30% market share. European companies are discovering the same thing, too. They have embraced ARM and RISC-V very strongly.
benj111 4y ago
I'm not so sure. The pc landscape is very diffuse, just imagine trying to get every windows app onboard with moving to arm. And until they do, the pc manufacturers aren't going to bother making hardware. Games consoles are moving to x86 to make porting easier, even though they have full control of the stack. Unless Google chromebooks up their game, or the pc disappears completely I don't really see arm taking over.

icegreentea2 4y ago

I find that difficult to believe, unless they did something weird like to lump smartphones into mobility. I thought ARM represented like ~5% of server install base, and maybe like 10% of 2022 server sales. Similarly, I understood Chromebooks + Macbooks (the two major laptop ARM products) to be on the order of 25% of laptop sales. These are both real and meaningful chunks of market, but I don't think they're enough to make up for the discrepancy in numbers. Perhaps they are including game consoles. [Edit] - found reporting on 2021 numbers they clearly seem to indicate that the first three sets of numbers are x86 only (https://venturebeat.com/consumer/mercury-research-amd-closes-2021-with-record-x86-cpu-market-share-at-25-6/ https://venturebeat.com/consumer/mercury-research-amd-closes...) The two big extra categories would seem to be game consoles (as suggested by GP), and IoT.