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Someone reporting something you said to your employer: freedom of speech Your employer declining to continue your employment: freedom of association Advocatin

by jtr1 4y ago

Someone reporting something you said to your employer: freedom of speech Your employer declining to continue your employment: freedom of association Advocating for a university to not host your talk: freedom of speech A university not hosting your talk: freedom of association and so on.

rootusrootus 4y ago
So it's legal, but you're definitely the Bad Guy.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  No u, since we've apparently abandoned argument in favor of just making claims.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Also, contacting someone's employer is far from a slam dunk freedom of speech case. It could easily run afoul of several criminal statutes, not to mention the obvious civil liability. One more nail in the coffin for Internet anonymity.
    - monkey_monkey 4y ago
      So, you do want some speech to be proscribed.
PeterisP 4y ago
You are right about this classification, but in my opinion freedom of association does need to be limited. Freedom of association is a right that people should have in their private life, but it is definitely not a right that government or government-funded public institutions (e.g. education) should have. Similarly the types of 'association' which are essential for basic life - namely, housing, employment and finance - already have various anti-discrimination laws that effectively assert that everyone should have equal access to these things and freedom of association is not an excuse to exclude people from these core needs. In essence, what I'm saying is that a card-carrying member of some radical movement (whichever movement you or I hate the most) perhaps should be shunned by people in all kinds of social activities because of their beliefs, but IMHO as long as they aren't breaking the law, they still should have the right to be a part of the society and receive core services which require interaction with it, namely, public services, education, jobs, housing, etc. We have drawn a line in sand upon crossing which people are excluded from society, and that line is criminal law if determined in due process. And before crossing that line people should have the right to not be discriminated in employment. If most of your coworkers hate you because you come from the "opposing outgroup" where there's mutual hate and perhaps a history of violence between your "tribes" - too bad for them, both you and them should still have the right to work there.

by jtr1 4y ago

rootusrootus 4y ago

So it's legal, but you're definitely the Bad Guy.

anigbrowl 4y ago
No u, since we've apparently abandoned argument in favor of just making claims.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Also, contacting someone's employer is far from a slam dunk freedom of speech case. It could easily run afoul of several criminal statutes, not to mention the obvious civil liability. One more nail in the coffin for Internet anonymity.
  - monkey_monkey 4y ago
    So, you do want some speech to be proscribed.

PeterisP 4y ago

You are right about this classification, but in my opinion freedom of association does need to be limited. Freedom of association is a right that people should have in their private life, but it is definitely not a right that government or government-funded public institutions (e.g. education) should have. Similarly the types of 'association' which are essential for basic life - namely, housing, employment and finance - already have various anti-discrimination laws that effectively assert that everyone should have equal access to these things and freedom of association is not an excuse to exclude people from these core needs. In essence, what I'm saying is that a card-carrying member of some radical movement (whichever movement you or I hate the most) perhaps should be shunned by people in all kinds of social activities because of their beliefs, but IMHO as long as they aren't breaking the law, they still should have the right to be a part of the society and receive core services which require interaction with it, namely, public services, education, jobs, housing, etc. We have drawn a line in sand upon crossing which people are excluded from society, and that line is criminal law if determined in due process. And before crossing that line people should have the right to not be discriminated in employment. If most of your coworkers hate you because you come from the "opposing outgroup" where there's mutual hate and perhaps a history of violence between your "tribes" - too bad for them, both you and them should still have the right to work there.