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>The 13th gen have barely been integrated in stuff and they seem to, at least on single thread, smash AMD in the price/performance ranking. Costs more to run,

>The 13th gen have barely been integrated in stuff and they seem to, at least on single thread, smash AMD in the price/performance ranking. Costs more to run, costs more to make, runs hotter and louder, by "smash" we're usually talking single digit performance gulfs, and performance is worse in a fairly broad amount of applications and where Intel's performance IS better it often is in an application where you would never be able to tell the difference without measurement tools. The 12400 "kicking the m1 in the teeth" is likely due more to software optimisation than the 12400 actually being meaningfully better. Your like of Intel's products as a consumer isn't really a reflection of their competitiveness. The only reason you're willing to buy their products at all is that Intel is cutting their margins to the bone whereas AMD is making stacks on every sale. Intel has had the best single core performance for eons and that hasn't saved them from their decline.

unxdfa 4y ago
In synthetic benchmarks, indeed. In my workloads there's about a 20% lead and yes that might be due to software optimisation etc or something like that but that is a real factor in the outcome. If it saves me 5% of my time that gives me 10 days a year back. To be clear I'm no loyalist. I went from an AMD 3700X to a 2020 M1 Mac Mini originally because that spanked it. Then to an M1 Pro which was regrettably no real improvement. Then to a 12400 because I had one as a comparison point and it was faster. Now likely a 13700K. Next time, it might be AMD, might be an M3. Who knows?! I'm mostly just glad I can jump around and pick whatever is on the market rather than being locked into one product or platform now.
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  Personally, I went 4950, 1700x, 5800x, 12700k. I considered giving intel another try after the 5800x, so I went with the 12700k. I needed a computer quickly, and my previous machine was unavailable. The next chance I am giving intel is relatively far into the future. Likely in 5-6 years at best given how many stability issues I have had. Do note that this is pure anecdata, n=1 and likely suffering from a degree of confirmation bias.
  - unxdfa 4y ago
    What OS are you running on the Intel? I had problems with Linux on it where it'd slow down and then it would freeze entirely. It runs Windows 11 now begrudgingly and have had zero issues.
    - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
      I am dual booting PopOS and Windows 11. PopOS has had a surprisingly high number of instability issues and random freezes. I considered the possibility that the build is the problem, but it’s the same nvidia LTS 22.02 build that I used with the 5800x. Windows runs fine. If I didn’t rely on cuda, I’d probably use github’s code spaces for programming and just stay in windows, or run a VM.
      - unxdfa 4y ago
        Was the same for me then. It’s clearly not year of the Linux desktop yet then.
        PartiallyTyped 4y ago
        Amd has been great on Linux, both gpu and cpu drivers, and the linux user base has been increasing at a rate sufficient to cut into windows’ segment.
      - mhitza 4y ago
        > PopOS has had a surprisingly high number of instability issues and random freezes. Is by any chance your disk encrypted? That's the only (major) reason nowadays why I hear about freezes in Linux.
        PartiallyTyped 4y ago
        No, my disk was unencrypted, it was a routine installation with distro defaults. I tried Manjaro that was a horrific experience from the get-go. It's possible that a lot of this in Pop_OS is related to wayland and gnome. The previous machine run a 5800x with a 1080ti, this runs a 12700k with a 3090ti, same distro otherwise.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 4y ago
  I dont jump hardware this often. I would consider am5 100% of the time because the upgrade from a ryzen 7000 would be a used high end am5 cpu years after am6 is out.
PartiallyTyped 4y ago
I feel the need to interject that in order to fully utilize a chip like 13900kf as done in benchmark scenarios by e.g. youtubers, one needs to put a lot of money on cooling, and control the ambient temperature. The wattage difference between AMD and Intel cpus is not just a matter of feeding it more electricity. Heat dissipation, air flow if air cooling, or reservoir capacity if water cooling, and control of ambient temperatures matters a lot. Then, one also needs adequate power delivery to deal with stability issues.

unxdfa 4y ago

In synthetic benchmarks, indeed. In my workloads there's about a 20% lead and yes that might be due to software optimisation etc or something like that but that is a real factor in the outcome. If it saves me 5% of my time that gives me 10 days a year back. To be clear I'm no loyalist. I went from an AMD 3700X to a 2020 M1 Mac Mini originally because that spanked it. Then to an M1 Pro which was regrettably no real improvement. Then to a 12400 because I had one as a comparison point and it was faster. Now likely a 13700K. Next time, it might be AMD, might be an M3. Who knows?! I'm mostly just glad I can jump around and pick whatever is on the market rather than being locked into one product or platform now.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago
Personally, I went 4950, 1700x, 5800x, 12700k. I considered giving intel another try after the 5800x, so I went with the 12700k. I needed a computer quickly, and my previous machine was unavailable. The next chance I am giving intel is relatively far into the future. Likely in 5-6 years at best given how many stability issues I have had. Do note that this is pure anecdata, n=1 and likely suffering from a degree of confirmation bias.
- unxdfa 4y ago
  What OS are you running on the Intel? I had problems with Linux on it where it'd slow down and then it would freeze entirely. It runs Windows 11 now begrudgingly and have had zero issues.
  - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
    I am dual booting PopOS and Windows 11. PopOS has had a surprisingly high number of instability issues and random freezes. I considered the possibility that the build is the problem, but it’s the same nvidia LTS 22.02 build that I used with the 5800x. Windows runs fine. If I didn’t rely on cuda, I’d probably use github’s code spaces for programming and just stay in windows, or run a VM.
    - unxdfa 4y ago
      Was the same for me then. It’s clearly not year of the Linux desktop yet then.
      - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
        Amd has been great on Linux, both gpu and cpu drivers, and the linux user base has been increasing at a rate sufficient to cut into windows’ segment.
    - mhitza 4y ago
      > PopOS has had a surprisingly high number of instability issues and random freezes. Is by any chance your disk encrypted? That's the only (major) reason nowadays why I hear about freezes in Linux.
      - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
        No, my disk was unencrypted, it was a routine installation with distro defaults. I tried Manjaro that was a horrific experience from the get-go. It's possible that a lot of this in Pop_OS is related to wayland and gnome. The previous machine run a 5800x with a 1080ti, this runs a 12700k with a 3090ti, same distro otherwise.
ThatMedicIsASpy 4y ago
I dont jump hardware this often. I would consider am5 100% of the time because the upgrade from a ryzen 7000 would be a used high end am5 cpu years after am6 is out.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

I feel the need to interject that in order to fully utilize a chip like 13900kf as done in benchmark scenarios by e.g. youtubers, one needs to put a lot of money on cooling, and control the ambient temperature. The wattage difference between AMD and Intel cpus is not just a matter of feeding it more electricity. Heat dissipation, air flow if air cooling, or reservoir capacity if water cooling, and control of ambient temperatures matters a lot. Then, one also needs adequate power delivery to deal with stability issues.