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> So for a car in the US with CHAdeMO, I'll have a J1772 plug, and then this whole other CHAdeMO connector And I repeat: for a CCS[1] car, you have a J-1772 co

by ajross 4y ago

> So for a car in the US with CHAdeMO, I'll have a J1772 plug, and then this whole other CHAdeMO connector And I repeat: for a CCS[1] car, you have a J-1772 connector, and a DC connector both on the car and both taking up space. And it's worse, because they're glued together! Going back to my USB example, imagine if USB-C worked by having a USB3 and USB2 connector side by side, and you couldn't charge your phone or connect your mouse without using both. It's literally that bad, and I genuinely can't imagine why you think otherwise. Have you ever actually plugged a Tesla in? [1] Strictly CCS Combo 1 as deployed in North America. Europeans get an IEC connector glued on instead. Which brings up the other bit of CCS madness: it's not even one standard, it's two completely incompatible plug designs with the same name!

clouddrover 4y ago
> it's not even one standard, it's two completely incompatible plug designs with the same name! Tesla has had five different plug designs on its cars. It's apparently not the problem you think it is.
vel0city 4y ago
It still takes up more space and creates more complications on the car. Look at how much space J1772 + CHAdeMO takes up on a car and compare that to CCS. https://picolio.auto123.com/art-images/156317/chademo_connection_i1.jpg https://picolio.auto123.com/art-images/156317/chademo_connec... vs https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/PYwkW/s3/european-ccs-type-2-combo-2-conquers-world-ccs-combo-1-exclusive-to-north-america.jpg https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/PYwkW/s3/european-ccs-type... Which is a more compact solution to a whole charging system on the car? For CCS vs CHAdeMO, I'd take CCS every time. I don't want to have two completely separate plugs, I'd prefer just one plug. If you can't look at these two pictures above and understand what I'm talking about, I don't know what to tell you. I've plugged in Teslas. I've plugged in CCS. I've handled CHAdeMO cables, which were roughly the same size and flexibility as the CCS ones on the stalls. I do agree Tesla connectors were the easiest to work with, but Tesla continuing to put it behind their patent pledge means nobody else is going to really use it. I do wish they would have actually opened it up or licensed it under some normal kind of licensing terms, but they didn't, so we're left with the standard the rest of the market came up with. As for CCS being different in the US vs Europe, I guess I'll have an issue if I drive my EV across the Atlantic Ocean. I'm not planning on making that road trip anytime soon, so I don't think that'll be an issue for me. If I move to Europe, I'd probably just sell my car and buy something over there rather than deal with import duties and getting it compliant to EU standards and what not, and vice-versa.
- fomine3 4y ago
  Theoretically, separated port for AC/DC is good to make plug smaller, isn't it? I don't care much about charge port implementation surface area on car.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    The CHAdeMO connector overall isn't much smaller than the CCS connector. Handling a CHAdeMO connector is extremely similar to handling a CCS connector for the same rated capacity. I do somewhat care about the space needed for two charging outlets versus one. It's a much larger door to open. It's a larger moving part susceptible to a larger area of impact potentially breaking it. Larger door means probably more complicated hinge management. Two connectors instead of just one means more wires, more communications, more pins to potentially break or get dirty, etc. Adding CCS to J1772 adds two pins, adding CHAdeMO adds like 10.

by ajross 4y ago

clouddrover 4y ago

> it's not even one standard, it's two completely incompatible plug designs with the same name! Tesla has had five different plug designs on its cars. It's apparently not the problem you think it is.

vel0city 4y ago

It still takes up more space and creates more complications on the car. Look at how much space J1772 + CHAdeMO takes up on a car and compare that to CCS. https://picolio.auto123.com/art-images/156317/chademo_connection_i1.jpg https://picolio.auto123.com/art-images/156317/chademo_connec... vs https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/PYwkW/s3/european-ccs-type-2-combo-2-conquers-world-ccs-combo-1-exclusive-to-north-america.jpg https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/PYwkW/s3/european-ccs-type... Which is a more compact solution to a whole charging system on the car? For CCS vs CHAdeMO, I'd take CCS every time. I don't want to have two completely separate plugs, I'd prefer just one plug. If you can't look at these two pictures above and understand what I'm talking about, I don't know what to tell you. I've plugged in Teslas. I've plugged in CCS. I've handled CHAdeMO cables, which were roughly the same size and flexibility as the CCS ones on the stalls. I do agree Tesla connectors were the easiest to work with, but Tesla continuing to put it behind their patent pledge means nobody else is going to really use it. I do wish they would have actually opened it up or licensed it under some normal kind of licensing terms, but they didn't, so we're left with the standard the rest of the market came up with. As for CCS being different in the US vs Europe, I guess I'll have an issue if I drive my EV across the Atlantic Ocean. I'm not planning on making that road trip anytime soon, so I don't think that'll be an issue for me. If I move to Europe, I'd probably just sell my car and buy something over there rather than deal with import duties and getting it compliant to EU standards and what not, and vice-versa.

fomine3 4y ago
Theoretically, separated port for AC/DC is good to make plug smaller, isn't it? I don't care much about charge port implementation surface area on car.
- vel0city 4y ago
  The CHAdeMO connector overall isn't much smaller than the CCS connector. Handling a CHAdeMO connector is extremely similar to handling a CCS connector for the same rated capacity. I do somewhat care about the space needed for two charging outlets versus one. It's a much larger door to open. It's a larger moving part susceptible to a larger area of impact potentially breaking it. Larger door means probably more complicated hinge management. Two connectors instead of just one means more wires, more communications, more pins to potentially break or get dirty, etc. Adding CCS to J1772 adds two pins, adding CHAdeMO adds like 10.