4 ms·

This is a confusing solution to the above problem because without bail he would still just walk. Unless I am missing something, the original commenter seems ma

This is a confusing solution to the above problem because without bail he would still just walk. Unless I am missing something, the original commenter seems mad that the bail is easily met and he walks. How would letting him walk anyway fix it?

nadermx 4y ago
It does have a point though. I believe what they where trying to say is presumed innocence and ability to walk, or sufficent evidence to hold.
- mr_00ff00 4y ago
  So really the issue is that it should be easier to hold people.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    It should be harder to hold people as a thoughtless default, and easier to revoke (non-cash) bail when they breach that trust.
    - vuln 4y ago
      When the bail is revoked you have to send resources to detain the person. Putting not only the person wanted, but the resources and everyone around the wanted person in danger.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        When cash bail is imposed on someone who can't afford it, we spend substantially more resources keeping them in jail pending trial. Rikers Island costs half a million a year per detainee. https://queenseagle.com/all/detained-until-proven-guilty https://queenseagle.com/all/detained-until-proven-guilty > Bryson’s son, whose name is being withheld for fear of reprisal, is one of 306 people incarcerated on Rikers Island whose pre-trial detention has lasted three years or longer. There are an additional 441 detainees who have been held for two to three years and nearly 1,000 who have been held for one to two years, according to the New York City Department of Correction. Pretrial detention also puts the presumed-innocent person at near-certain risk of job loss and other negative consequences.
        vuln 4y ago
        I'm not arguing against you. I'm sure the location of the jail and the Cost of Living of the surrounding area has an affect on the cost. > Rikers Island costs half a million a year per detainee. Which averages down to $1,369 a day or $57/hr per prisoner. Which is about the same cost as 2 average NYcops[0] (Maybe NYC is higher?) per hour. So I guess the cost to house and the cost to retrieve are about the same minus the admin/paperwork? Although that assumes the 2 cops show up and the person is exactly where they say they are and go into custody without issue. [0] https://www.indeed.com/career/police-officer/salaries/New-York--NY https://www.indeed.com/career/police-officer/salaries/New-Yo...
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        Two cops can hopefully capture more than one bail jumper in a year, so no, not the same cost.
        blitzar 4y ago
        Those are state cases not federal cases. The system of bail is different. Nevertheless, the real issue there is refusing to set trial dates and dragging out the proceedings, typically done in the hope of getting the accused to plea guilty so an up and coming DA can brag about their prosecution rate when they run for Governor.
maxfurman 4y ago
This is another set of parallel rules for the rich and poor. SBF can walk for less than 1% of his bail amount, but someone stuck in jail on a $1000 bail can't make a similar deal for $5.
- 7e 4y ago
  Find me a bail bondsman who is willing to track down a fugitive for $5. That’s what this money pays for: bounty hunters. And they have a minimum wage.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    I feel like the existence of bounty hunters is a problem in and of itself.
- mr_00ff00 4y ago
  Ahh okay, I actually missed this detail. That is a big problem.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > SBF can walk for less than 1% of his bail amount, Because the main purpose of the bail amount in his case is because bail secomes a virtually automatic default judgement, and its not as easy to keep a person out of reach of criminal process and all their assets out of reach of a default judgement in favor of the US government as to do just the former, so him and his parents being on the hook for the full value is a significant additional cost to attempting flight.
ceejayoz 4y ago
Most people should get released pending trial. Those who are flight risks or ongoing threats to the community should not. Their bank balance is irrelevant to the decision, and making it part of the decision winds up with precisely these sorts of goofy scenarios. Is SBF a flight risk? Yes. Handle that via monitoring (as they're doing, clearly) and if he keeps wriggling around his release conditions, revoke his bail.

nadermx 4y ago

It does have a point though. I believe what they where trying to say is presumed innocence and ability to walk, or sufficent evidence to hold.

mr_00ff00 4y ago
So really the issue is that it should be easier to hold people.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  It should be harder to hold people as a thoughtless default, and easier to revoke (non-cash) bail when they breach that trust.
  - vuln 4y ago
    When the bail is revoked you have to send resources to detain the person. Putting not only the person wanted, but the resources and everyone around the wanted person in danger.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      When cash bail is imposed on someone who can't afford it, we spend substantially more resources keeping them in jail pending trial. Rikers Island costs half a million a year per detainee. https://queenseagle.com/all/detained-until-proven-guilty https://queenseagle.com/all/detained-until-proven-guilty > Bryson’s son, whose name is being withheld for fear of reprisal, is one of 306 people incarcerated on Rikers Island whose pre-trial detention has lasted three years or longer. There are an additional 441 detainees who have been held for two to three years and nearly 1,000 who have been held for one to two years, according to the New York City Department of Correction. Pretrial detention also puts the presumed-innocent person at near-certain risk of job loss and other negative consequences.
      - vuln 4y ago
        I'm not arguing against you. I'm sure the location of the jail and the Cost of Living of the surrounding area has an affect on the cost. > Rikers Island costs half a million a year per detainee. Which averages down to $1,369 a day or $57/hr per prisoner. Which is about the same cost as 2 average NYcops[0] (Maybe NYC is higher?) per hour. So I guess the cost to house and the cost to retrieve are about the same minus the admin/paperwork? Although that assumes the 2 cops show up and the person is exactly where they say they are and go into custody without issue. [0] https://www.indeed.com/career/police-officer/salaries/New-York--NY https://www.indeed.com/career/police-officer/salaries/New-Yo...
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        Two cops can hopefully capture more than one bail jumper in a year, so no, not the same cost.
      - blitzar 4y ago
        Those are state cases not federal cases. The system of bail is different. Nevertheless, the real issue there is refusing to set trial dates and dragging out the proceedings, typically done in the hope of getting the accused to plea guilty so an up and coming DA can brag about their prosecution rate when they run for Governor.

maxfurman 4y ago

This is another set of parallel rules for the rich and poor. SBF can walk for less than 1% of his bail amount, but someone stuck in jail on a $1000 bail can't make a similar deal for $5.

7e 4y ago
Find me a bail bondsman who is willing to track down a fugitive for $5. That’s what this money pays for: bounty hunters. And they have a minimum wage.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  I feel like the existence of bounty hunters is a problem in and of itself.
mr_00ff00 4y ago
Ahh okay, I actually missed this detail. That is a big problem.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> SBF can walk for less than 1% of his bail amount, Because the main purpose of the bail amount in his case is because bail secomes a virtually automatic default judgement, and its not as easy to keep a person out of reach of criminal process and all their assets out of reach of a default judgement in favor of the US government as to do just the former, so him and his parents being on the hook for the full value is a significant additional cost to attempting flight.

ceejayoz 4y ago

Most people should get released pending trial. Those who are flight risks or ongoing threats to the community should not. Their bank balance is irrelevant to the decision, and making it part of the decision winds up with precisely these sorts of goofy scenarios. Is SBF a flight risk? Yes. Handle that via monitoring (as they're doing, clearly) and if he keeps wriggling around his release conditions, revoke his bail.