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I am skeptical that the Judge (or whoever else was involved here) understands what precisely they're talking about. By my reading, HTTPS would also violate the

I am skeptical that the Judge (or whoever else was involved here) understands what precisely they're talking about. By my reading, HTTPS would also violate the order, and there isn't anything you can do with an explicit VPN protocol that you can't do with a day or two of infra setup using another technology. I am reminded of when weev set up services for himself so prison phone calls to a particular number would be automatically uploaded to soundcloud[0] and posted on twitter though prison e-mail[1]. IIRC tweets containing his name were also spooled, printed out, and mailed to him every week. [0] https://soundcloud.com/weevlos/weev-live-from-prison-2013-04 https://soundcloud.com/weevlos/weev-live-from-prison-2013-04 [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/3007961/convicted-hacker-troll-weev-livetweets-prison-sentence https://www.fastcompany.com/3007961/convicted-hacker-troll-w...

fsckboy 4y ago
when a judge orders you to not hide your online activity, it literally means that and doesn't matter how easy or inadvertant it is. "but judge, if I..." okay, don't do that either. "but judge, i can't..." ok, don't do that either. >I am skeptical that the Judge understands what precisely they're talking about. the judge knows s/he's not an expert in every domain but the law and plain English. You are required to understand plain English, or have your counsel explain it to you. If you don't have counsel, judges are actually very patient in explaining, but not in forgiving repeat offenses. a better way to look at it is, what is the judge's goal, and how can you help him achieve that goal? otherwise, playing a game of cat and mouse risks angering the judge, and just like you can't help but hide your activity, he won't be able to help but deny your motions. I also am reminded of weev. weev went to jail. SBF is out on bail, with conditions. If he can't meet the conditions, the alternative is choosing jail.
- notch898a 4y ago
  The plain English doesn't mean dick to a judge though. A Mexican here on a non-immigrant visa is most definitely a person but absent a few exceptions, you are going to jail if found with a gun. No matter that right is ascribed to "people" not "citizens." It's only through a lot of not-plain-english mumbo jumbo that you might discover the Mexican is not a person to the judge. Weev is definitely an interesting case. He was released after conviction for being tried apparently in the wrong jurisdiction. It appears his prosecution was incompetent, or stupid. He somehow ended up with a Transnistria passport and resides in Ukraine, afraid they will re-prosecute the case in the correct court next time. He still appears here occasionally under the name 'rabite'.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
The law isn’t a computer program and nor does it care about technical hair-splitting. The order is saying use of a VPN for chat/call purposes is violating an existing ban on using encrypted or ephemeral chat/call programs. Basically, he is not allowed to have secret communications with people. For a specific example: Facebook messenger uses SSL, but law enforcement can easily request records of what he said. Being able to get the content of those messages is what’s important here.
- Laaas 4y ago
  A VPN doesn't make something not ephemeral ephemeral.
Laaas 4y ago
If he is to be barred from having any private communication with the world, then log his network traffic directly (pre-VPN, TLS encryption, etc) rather than this minor nuisance.

fsckboy 4y ago

when a judge orders you to not hide your online activity, it literally means that and doesn't matter how easy or inadvertant it is. "but judge, if I..." okay, don't do that either. "but judge, i can't..." ok, don't do that either. >I am skeptical that the Judge understands what precisely they're talking about. the judge knows s/he's not an expert in every domain but the law and plain English. You are required to understand plain English, or have your counsel explain it to you. If you don't have counsel, judges are actually very patient in explaining, but not in forgiving repeat offenses. a better way to look at it is, what is the judge's goal, and how can you help him achieve that goal? otherwise, playing a game of cat and mouse risks angering the judge, and just like you can't help but hide your activity, he won't be able to help but deny your motions. I also am reminded of weev. weev went to jail. SBF is out on bail, with conditions. If he can't meet the conditions, the alternative is choosing jail.

notch898a 4y ago
The plain English doesn't mean dick to a judge though. A Mexican here on a non-immigrant visa is most definitely a person but absent a few exceptions, you are going to jail if found with a gun. No matter that right is ascribed to "people" not "citizens." It's only through a lot of not-plain-english mumbo jumbo that you might discover the Mexican is not a person to the judge. Weev is definitely an interesting case. He was released after conviction for being tried apparently in the wrong jurisdiction. It appears his prosecution was incompetent, or stupid. He somehow ended up with a Transnistria passport and resides in Ukraine, afraid they will re-prosecute the case in the correct court next time. He still appears here occasionally under the name 'rabite'.

kayodelycaon 4y ago

The law isn’t a computer program and nor does it care about technical hair-splitting. The order is saying use of a VPN for chat/call purposes is violating an existing ban on using encrypted or ephemeral chat/call programs. Basically, he is not allowed to have secret communications with people. For a specific example: Facebook messenger uses SSL, but law enforcement can easily request records of what he said. Being able to get the content of those messages is what’s important here.

Laaas 4y ago
A VPN doesn't make something not ephemeral ephemeral.

Laaas 4y ago

If he is to be barred from having any private communication with the world, then log his network traffic directly (pre-VPN, TLS encryption, etc) rather than this minor nuisance.