6 ms·

A Concerning Trend

58 points by mojoe 4y ago

KronisLV 4y ago
Error on site (hopefully temporary): Error establishing a database connection Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230216110220/neil-clarke.com/a-concerning-trend/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230216110220/neil-clarke.com/a... The intro: > Since the early days of the pandemic, I’ve observed an increase in the number of spammy submissions to Clarkesworld. What I mean by that is that there’s an honest interest in being published, but not in having to do the actual work. More details (also calling this "AI spam"): > What I can say is that the number of spam submissions resulting in bans has hit 38% this month. While rejecting and banning these submissions has been simple, it’s growing at a rate that will necessitate changes. To make matters worse, the technology is only going to get better, so detection will become more challenging. Link to the mentioned magazine, which is for science fiction & fantasy: https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/ https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/ They go into detail about accepting submissions: > Clarkesworld Magazine is a Hugo, World Fantasy, and British Fantasy Award-winning science fiction and fantasy magazine that publishes short stories, interviews, articles and audio fiction. Issues are published monthly and available on our website, for purchase in ebook format, and via electronic subscription. All original fiction is also published in our trade paperback series from Wyrm Publishing. We are currently open for art, non-fiction and short story submissions. (just summarizing a bit, since the title didn't make sense alone, then the site crashed and I wasn't that familiar with Clarkesworld in particular)
- RugnirViking 4y ago
  able to see it here now
williamcotton 4y ago
We’re really going to need a robust way to verify human actors on the internet: Authentically Human in a World of ChatGPT https://www.williamcotton.com/articles/authentically-human-in-a-world-of-chat-gpt https://www.williamcotton.com/articles/authentically-human-i...
- sirsuki 4y ago
  I wish I could GPG sign or hackcode my online content in pain text. But the tools to do so don’t make it to the general publics consciousness. We used to seal our communications with wax stamps but we don’t have a digital equivalent. Kinda how ROT13 used to be universally understood for spoilers now their use actively confuses people. This makes me sad.
pjc50 4y ago
Yeah, this is the downside of AI: while it might make some kinds of work more efficient, it makes other kinds of work less efficient by enabling the construction of lots of "fake" inputs which have to be discarded. It's probably going to further the destruction of text-based social media and force a retreat of people back into their social, political, and geographical circles. You will have to stay in the "bubble" because almost everything you encounter outside the bubble will be fraudulent AI content.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Not just text. Deepfakes are going to ruin voice- and video-based interactions, too. You're only going to be able to trust in-person interaction. And even then, you're going to have to know where the person you're talking to got their information. Epistemological trust is broken. We're back to "what you have seen with your own eyes". And that's going to seriously impede progress, because it means the number of people you can learn from is now very small.
  - prox 4y ago
    Yeah, the only people I trust are the ones I have seen in reality. And if we speak digital we probably have to have a call and respond password. We need tools for trust if we want online to thrive.
    - sekh60 4y ago
      The internet has grown massively over the last two decades, but maybe AI leading to a contraction would be a good thing. Maybe an end to Eternal September.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    But Deepfakes only make those things easier, they're not what makes it possible in the first place. Have someone with makeup and a similar voice, and you can fool someone with a video call. Prank-calls with people sounding like some politician were a perennial source of entertainment for radio shows etc. The trust was misplaced in the first case, but we're now getting a clear demonstration why. Like someone walking up to your car with a universal remote and unlocking it within 60 seconds.
rcarr 4y ago
I see AI ending up under strict regulation so that all AI generated content has to be stored somewhere read only. Other highly regulated companies and law enforcement agencies will then have access to this AI web of content and will be able to search it to see if any submitted content, be that an essay or a forum post or whatever, is AI generated and to what extent. The public will still be able to access AI tools via the regulated companies but the scope of damage the individual can inflict will be limited. People caught using AIs outside of the state sanctioned companies will get harsh jail sentences to deter anyone from trying the same. I don’t think there’s any other way to avoid chaos. I doubt anyone is going to be able to come up with a reliable algorithm to detect AI content. We’re literally going to have to just store everything these AIs produce in plain text and search it when needed.
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  While I can understand the argument that this might be a good idea, I don't believe there is a chance of it actually happening. So many countries would have to work together to do something which is so obviously detrimental to their own economy.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    I get what you're saying but if they think it's a Mutually Assured Destruction style scenario if it's allowed to run rampant they might end up changing their minds.
- menzoic 4y ago
  This wouldn't work because there's no way to enforce that all AI generated content gets stored in a single place.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    The enforcement would be a very lengthy prison sentence for the people not complying e.g hacking state secrets level prison sentence. I think this is where it will ultimately end up if it ends up causing complete carnage.
plutonorm 4y ago
Pretty soon the content will be better than we can produce anyway. You're fiddling while Rome burns. You need to pivot hard because your business model is dead. As are the jobs of almost all white collar workers. We have AI and its not like we thought, AI is people in a box. A person in a box is much cheaper than a meat sack in the real world and will only get cheaper.
- em-bee 4y ago
  writing, painting, etc, is not a business model. it is a creative act. sure, some do it for the money, some artists become successful and can live off their artwork. but, unlike many other businesses. humanity needs creativity and art for its development as a society. AI created art is somehow part of that, but its domination prevents the development of art by actual humans. it is not a question of what is better, but what is actually creative and furthers human development. AI created art is not that.
  - plutonorm 4y ago
    AIs are humans. We have extracted human essence from the data and put it in a box.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      but they are stale, static humans that don't develop. frozen. they are zombies. (actually, even zombies are more alive than an AI) the point of being human is continuous development. an AI can't do that. it can only summarize existing data and not generate new insights on its own. (doing that can help humans generate new insights, but that is something different)
      - plutonorm 4y ago
        Irrelevant comment in 3.2.1
    - roguecoder 4y ago
      AIs are less humans than corporations are, and we've seen what Citizen's United has done to politics.
roguecoder 4y ago
As software engineers, we need to take responsibility for the impact our software has on the world. I hope Sam Altman and everyone else who contributed code to ChatGPT is taking a long, hard look in the mirror and considering what it means to make the world worse with our labors.
- consumer451 4y ago
  Well, he kind of did a while ago. Remember UBI? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/openai-ceo-sam-altman-says-ai-could-pay-for-ubi-experts-disagree.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/openai-ceo-sam-altman-says-a...

58 points by mojoe 4y ago

Error on site (hopefully temporary): Error establishing a database connection Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230216110220/neil-clarke.com/a-concerning-trend/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230216110220/neil-clarke.com/a... The intro: > Since the early days of the pandemic, I’ve observed an increase in the number of spammy submissions to Clarkesworld. What I mean by that is that there’s an honest interest in being published, but not in having to do the actual work. More details (also calling this "AI spam"): > What I can say is that the number of spam submissions resulting in bans has hit 38% this month. While rejecting and banning these submissions has been simple, it’s growing at a rate that will necessitate changes. To make matters worse, the technology is only going to get better, so detection will become more challenging. Link to the mentioned magazine, which is for science fiction & fantasy: https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/ https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/ They go into detail about accepting submissions: > Clarkesworld Magazine is a Hugo, World Fantasy, and British Fantasy Award-winning science fiction and fantasy magazine that publishes short stories, interviews, articles and audio fiction. Issues are published monthly and available on our website, for purchase in ebook format, and via electronic subscription. All original fiction is also published in our trade paperback series from Wyrm Publishing. We are currently open for art, non-fiction and short story submissions. (just summarizing a bit, since the title didn't make sense alone, then the site crashed and I wasn't that familiar with Clarkesworld in particular)

RugnirViking 4y ago
able to see it here now

williamcotton 4y ago

We’re really going to need a robust way to verify human actors on the internet: Authentically Human in a World of ChatGPT https://www.williamcotton.com/articles/authentically-human-in-a-world-of-chat-gpt https://www.williamcotton.com/articles/authentically-human-i...

sirsuki 4y ago
I wish I could GPG sign or hackcode my online content in pain text. But the tools to do so don’t make it to the general publics consciousness. We used to seal our communications with wax stamps but we don’t have a digital equivalent. Kinda how ROT13 used to be universally understood for spoilers now their use actively confuses people. This makes me sad.

pjc50 4y ago

Yeah, this is the downside of AI: while it might make some kinds of work more efficient, it makes other kinds of work less efficient by enabling the construction of lots of "fake" inputs which have to be discarded. It's probably going to further the destruction of text-based social media and force a retreat of people back into their social, political, and geographical circles. You will have to stay in the "bubble" because almost everything you encounter outside the bubble will be fraudulent AI content.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Not just text. Deepfakes are going to ruin voice- and video-based interactions, too. You're only going to be able to trust in-person interaction. And even then, you're going to have to know where the person you're talking to got their information. Epistemological trust is broken. We're back to "what you have seen with your own eyes". And that's going to seriously impede progress, because it means the number of people you can learn from is now very small.
- prox 4y ago
  Yeah, the only people I trust are the ones I have seen in reality. And if we speak digital we probably have to have a call and respond password. We need tools for trust if we want online to thrive.
  - sekh60 4y ago
    The internet has grown massively over the last two decades, but maybe AI leading to a contraction would be a good thing. Maybe an end to Eternal September.
- luckylion 4y ago
  But Deepfakes only make those things easier, they're not what makes it possible in the first place. Have someone with makeup and a similar voice, and you can fool someone with a video call. Prank-calls with people sounding like some politician were a perennial source of entertainment for radio shows etc. The trust was misplaced in the first case, but we're now getting a clear demonstration why. Like someone walking up to your car with a universal remote and unlocking it within 60 seconds.

rcarr 4y ago

I see AI ending up under strict regulation so that all AI generated content has to be stored somewhere read only. Other highly regulated companies and law enforcement agencies will then have access to this AI web of content and will be able to search it to see if any submitted content, be that an essay or a forum post or whatever, is AI generated and to what extent. The public will still be able to access AI tools via the regulated companies but the scope of damage the individual can inflict will be limited. People caught using AIs outside of the state sanctioned companies will get harsh jail sentences to deter anyone from trying the same. I don’t think there’s any other way to avoid chaos. I doubt anyone is going to be able to come up with a reliable algorithm to detect AI content. We’re literally going to have to just store everything these AIs produce in plain text and search it when needed.

sebzim4500 4y ago
While I can understand the argument that this might be a good idea, I don't believe there is a chance of it actually happening. So many countries would have to work together to do something which is so obviously detrimental to their own economy.
- rcarr 4y ago
  I get what you're saying but if they think it's a Mutually Assured Destruction style scenario if it's allowed to run rampant they might end up changing their minds.
menzoic 4y ago
This wouldn't work because there's no way to enforce that all AI generated content gets stored in a single place.
- rcarr 4y ago
  The enforcement would be a very lengthy prison sentence for the people not complying e.g hacking state secrets level prison sentence. I think this is where it will ultimately end up if it ends up causing complete carnage.

plutonorm 4y ago

Pretty soon the content will be better than we can produce anyway. You're fiddling while Rome burns. You need to pivot hard because your business model is dead. As are the jobs of almost all white collar workers. We have AI and its not like we thought, AI is people in a box. A person in a box is much cheaper than a meat sack in the real world and will only get cheaper.

em-bee 4y ago
writing, painting, etc, is not a business model. it is a creative act. sure, some do it for the money, some artists become successful and can live off their artwork. but, unlike many other businesses. humanity needs creativity and art for its development as a society. AI created art is somehow part of that, but its domination prevents the development of art by actual humans. it is not a question of what is better, but what is actually creative and furthers human development. AI created art is not that.
- plutonorm 4y ago
  AIs are humans. We have extracted human essence from the data and put it in a box.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    but they are stale, static humans that don't develop. frozen. they are zombies. (actually, even zombies are more alive than an AI) the point of being human is continuous development. an AI can't do that. it can only summarize existing data and not generate new insights on its own. (doing that can help humans generate new insights, but that is something different)
    - plutonorm 4y ago
      Irrelevant comment in 3.2.1
  - roguecoder 4y ago
    AIs are less humans than corporations are, and we've seen what Citizen's United has done to politics.

roguecoder 4y ago

As software engineers, we need to take responsibility for the impact our software has on the world. I hope Sam Altman and everyone else who contributed code to ChatGPT is taking a long, hard look in the mirror and considering what it means to make the world worse with our labors.

consumer451 4y ago
Well, he kind of did a while ago. Remember UBI? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/openai-ceo-sam-altman-says-ai-could-pay-for-ubi-experts-disagree.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/openai-ceo-sam-altman-says-a...