4 ms·

The Chinese Room thought experiment can also be used as an argument against you being conscious. To me, this makes it obvious that the reasoning of the thought

The Chinese Room thought experiment can also be used as an argument against you being conscious. To me, this makes it obvious that the reasoning of the thought experiment is incorrect: Your brain runs on the laws of physics, and the laws of physics are just mechanically applying local rules without understanding anything. So the laws of physics are just like the person at the center of the Chinese Room, following instructions without understanding.

twicetwice 4y ago
I think Searle's Chinese Room argument is sophistry, for similar reasons to the ones you suggest—the proposition is that the SYSTEM understands Chinese, not any component of the system, and in the latter half of the argument the human is just a component of the system—but Searle does believe that quantum indeterminism is a requirement for consciousness, which I think is a valid response to the argument you've presented here.
- int_19h 4y ago
  If there's actual evidence that quantum determinism is a requirement, then that would have been a valid argument to make instead of the Chinese room one. If the premise is that "it ain't sentient if it ain't quantum", why even bother with such thought experiments? But there's no such clear evidence, and the quantum hypothesis itself seems to be popular mainly among those who reluctantly accept materialism of consciousness, but are unwilling to fully accept the implications wrt their understanding of "freedom of will". That is, it is more of a religion in disguise.
  - twicetwice 4y ago
    Yes, I firmly agree with your first paragraph and roughly agree with your second paragraph.
- gavinray 4y ago
  I don't know anything about this domain but I wholeheartedly believe consciousness to be an emergent phenomena that arises in what we may as well call "spontaneously" out of other non-conscious phenomena. If you apply this rule to machine learning, why can a neural network and it's model not have emergent properties and behavior too? (Maybe you can't, I dunno, but my toddler-level analogy wants to look at this way)

twicetwice 4y ago

I think Searle's Chinese Room argument is sophistry, for similar reasons to the ones you suggest—the proposition is that the SYSTEM understands Chinese, not any component of the system, and in the latter half of the argument the human is just a component of the system—but Searle does believe that quantum indeterminism is a requirement for consciousness, which I think is a valid response to the argument you've presented here.

int_19h 4y ago
If there's actual evidence that quantum determinism is a requirement, then that would have been a valid argument to make instead of the Chinese room one. If the premise is that "it ain't sentient if it ain't quantum", why even bother with such thought experiments? But there's no such clear evidence, and the quantum hypothesis itself seems to be popular mainly among those who reluctantly accept materialism of consciousness, but are unwilling to fully accept the implications wrt their understanding of "freedom of will". That is, it is more of a religion in disguise.
- twicetwice 4y ago
  Yes, I firmly agree with your first paragraph and roughly agree with your second paragraph.
gavinray 4y ago
I don't know anything about this domain but I wholeheartedly believe consciousness to be an emergent phenomena that arises in what we may as well call "spontaneously" out of other non-conscious phenomena. If you apply this rule to machine learning, why can a neural network and it's model not have emergent properties and behavior too? (Maybe you can't, I dunno, but my toddler-level analogy wants to look at this way)