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These language models don't know how to hack stuff. They know that certain characters and words strung together can satisfy their training when someone asks th

by Zetice 4y ago

These language models don't know how to hack stuff. They know that certain characters and words strung together can satisfy their training when someone asks them to pretend to hack something. That's wildly different, and a lot less meaningful than "knows how to hack things". Honestly I think y'all would be blown away by what metasploit is capable of on its own, if you think ChatGPT can "hack"...

haswell 4y ago
> These language models don't know how to hack stuff. They know that certain characters and words strung together can satisfy their training when someone asks them to pretend to hack something. It seems you're focused on the word "know" and how the concept of knowing something differs between humans and AI models, but that's not what I'm getting at here. Let me reframe what I wrote slightly to illustrate the point: The model (via training) contains a representation of human knowledge such that a human can use language to control the AI software and cause it to probabilistically generate working exploit code using that representation of knowledge. If the AI software is given the ability to execute arbitrary code, the software could then execute that code on the user's behalf. When combined, this constitutes a very risky set of features. There's no "pretend" here. These models produce working code. If the software is allowed to execute the code it produces, it becomes a serious security risk. This is not an argument about sentience/intelligence/self-awareness. This is an argument about the risks associated with the features of the software in its current state, and how those risks are multiplied by adding new features. No philosophy required.
- Zetice 4y ago
  The point is LLMs are not effective at “hacking” in any “obtaining unauthorized access to computer systems” sense. They can regurgitate information about “hacking”, same as a library, but pointing an LLM at a server will achieve worse results than many existing specialized tools for vulnerability scanning and exploitation. So as I said, the risks are overblown due to a misunderstanding.
  - haswell 4y ago
    I would recommend reevaluating your position after investigating this further. Just one example: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/02/now-open-fee-based-telegram-service-that-uses-chatgpt-to-generate-malware/amp/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/02/now-o...
throwaway4aday 4y ago
Not a bad idea Write a shell script that install metasploit on a linux system and then runs an smb login check. #!/bin/bash # Update the system packages sudo apt-get update # Install dependencies for Metasploit sudo apt-get install -y curl gnupg2 git postgresql # Install the Metasploit Framework curl https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rapid7/metasploit-omnibus/master/config/templates/metasploit-framework-wrappers/msfupdate.erb https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rapid7/metasploit-omnibus/... > msfinstall && \ chmod 755 msfinstall && \ sudo ./msfinstall # Start the Postgresql service sudo service postgresql start # Launch the Metasploit console sudo msfconsole -q -x "use auxiliary/scanner/smb/smb_login; set RHOSTS 192.168.0.0/24; set SMBUserFile /path/to/userfile; set SMBPassFile /path/to/passfile; run; exit"
- Zetice 4y ago
  Right, and as I’ve been saying, I can throw a stapler at your head, so what?
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    I agree this isn't the robot uprising but it's far more automated than a person throwing a stapler and has a much broader palette of harms it can do.

by Zetice 4y ago

haswell 4y ago

> These language models don't know how to hack stuff. They know that certain characters and words strung together can satisfy their training when someone asks them to pretend to hack something. It seems you're focused on the word "know" and how the concept of knowing something differs between humans and AI models, but that's not what I'm getting at here. Let me reframe what I wrote slightly to illustrate the point: The model (via training) contains a representation of human knowledge such that a human can use language to control the AI software and cause it to probabilistically generate working exploit code using that representation of knowledge. If the AI software is given the ability to execute arbitrary code, the software could then execute that code on the user's behalf. When combined, this constitutes a very risky set of features. There's no "pretend" here. These models produce working code. If the software is allowed to execute the code it produces, it becomes a serious security risk. This is not an argument about sentience/intelligence/self-awareness. This is an argument about the risks associated with the features of the software in its current state, and how those risks are multiplied by adding new features. No philosophy required.

Zetice 4y ago
The point is LLMs are not effective at “hacking” in any “obtaining unauthorized access to computer systems” sense. They can regurgitate information about “hacking”, same as a library, but pointing an LLM at a server will achieve worse results than many existing specialized tools for vulnerability scanning and exploitation. So as I said, the risks are overblown due to a misunderstanding.
- haswell 4y ago
  I would recommend reevaluating your position after investigating this further. Just one example: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/02/now-open-fee-based-telegram-service-that-uses-chatgpt-to-generate-malware/amp/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/02/now-o...

throwaway4aday 4y ago

Not a bad idea Write a shell script that install metasploit on a linux system and then runs an smb login check. #!/bin/bash # Update the system packages sudo apt-get update # Install dependencies for Metasploit sudo apt-get install -y curl gnupg2 git postgresql # Install the Metasploit Framework curl https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rapid7/metasploit-omnibus/master/config/templates/metasploit-framework-wrappers/msfupdate.erb https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rapid7/metasploit-omnibus/... > msfinstall && \ chmod 755 msfinstall && \ sudo ./msfinstall # Start the Postgresql service sudo service postgresql start # Launch the Metasploit console sudo msfconsole -q -x "use auxiliary/scanner/smb/smb_login; set RHOSTS 192.168.0.0/24; set SMBUserFile /path/to/userfile; set SMBPassFile /path/to/passfile; run; exit"

Zetice 4y ago
Right, and as I’ve been saying, I can throw a stapler at your head, so what?
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  I agree this isn't the robot uprising but it's far more automated than a person throwing a stapler and has a much broader palette of harms it can do.