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Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why
- akiselev 4y agohttps://archive.ph/pkhtc https://archive.ph/pkhtc
- newsclues 4y agoHas anyone considered that birth control is actually messing with humans?
- rdedev 4y agoDid you mean birth control pills or just birth control in general?
- newsclues 4y agoI know it exists, but I don't know what form the medication is in. But I know it's so ubiquitous it is in the water.
- sapientiae3 4y agoNot just individuals, but relationships too.
- unglaublich 4y agoYes, birth control medication has been extensively research.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoCertain aspects have, others have not. You can see by the downvotes that asking the question is seen as a political attack by many.
- red-iron-pine 4y agoLots of folks. Endocrine disruption is a common discussion here and other places. It's debatable how much is related to plastics, hormones in the water, air pollution, or other factors. To paraphrase one bankrupt demagogue: "it's makin the frogs gay"
- mensetmanusman 4y agoMassive hormone therapy at a never-before-attempted scale might have an effect…
- newsclues 4y agoDidn't think this was controversial.
- LesZedCB 4y agoi was expecting to find something about society-wide chronic stress, lo and behold > And chronic stress has been found to deplete the body of the energy it needs to make milk. lets just say our profit and growth driven society is not structured to nurture humans, neither grown nor newborn.
- robertlagrant 4y agoHow is society is profit and growth driven?
- tstrimple 4y agoIt's the nature of a capitalist society. It's right in the definition. > an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
- codekansas 4y agoDefining an economic system as growth and profit driven is sort of tautological though, given the definition of "economics": > The branch of knowledge concerned with the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth. Original question was about "society" which is sort of nebulous, but I think (hope?) most people wouldn't define their relationships with their family and close friends, or with most of the world around them, through the lens of an economic system, be it capitalism, communism, mercantilism or feudalism.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- this_user 4y agoYou make it sound like there is a difference between capitalism and human nature, but there really isn't. Capitalism is merely an institutionalised expression of the latter, hence its longevity. Humans by their very nature possess the instinct to outcompete their rivals as a result of millions of years of evolution. Anyone who was not like that, was removed from the gene pool by those who were either by taking their resources or by outright murdering them.
- SQueeeeeL 4y agoI think it's almost unfathomable for us to imagine how far we are from a "traditional" homosapien life. I read a book called "Hunt, Gather, Parent" where they describe the life of multiple 'less developed' societies, and how they spent a large portion of their life interacting with babies, adolescents, older children, pregnant relations. It's a miracle people are still able to reproduce at all given our isolation from reproduction and the processes of rearing children.
- readthenotes1 4y agoI have a relative who grew up as the oldest of four children in a very traditional home in a rural setting. She has had trouble breastfeeding each of her three babies.
- positr0n 4y agoI read a comment here years ago saying that in ancient times the average woman would have only a few dozen menstrual cycles in her life. Most the time between puberty and menopause you were either pregnant or breastfeeding. Does the book discuss that too?
- compiler-guy 4y agoOr undernourished.
- antognini 4y agoThat may have been true for agricultural societies, but it doesn't sound right for hunter gatherers (at least from my memory of an anthropology class I took). Many hunter gatherer societies have strong postpartum taboos and space children at least three years apart.
- positr0n 4y agoI thought babies would breast feed for 3 to 6 years. Even today the WHO recommends 2+ years.
- abfan1127 4y agoanecdotally, my wife struggled to breastfeed our first born. The hospital lactation consultant wasn't very helpful. Ultimately, we found another who's knowledge and bedside manner was very good. I'd hypothesize the lack of generational homes leads to lack of information for new moms. Add on stress about things like jobs, careers, family expectations, and it becomes very difficult.
- my_usernam3 4y agoSpread some of that tribal knowledge, what worked for her?
- zo1 4y agoNot OP, but one bit that helped for us was insisting that our second newborn doesn't get given a "pacifier" to stop crying (which the nurses all want to do at the hospital because something something... quiet). My best guess is that it makes the baby "lazy" and used to "easy sucking", so they don't try hard enough on a real nipple.
- Someone1234 4y agoDifferent poster: But what worked for my wife was "Medela Nipple Shield" in the appropriate size. What I find interesting is that our first didn't eat for TWO DAYS until we got that piece of silicone. It was recommended by the lactation consultant, but the hospital didn't stock them because they had a policy against assistive devices. It took two days because the lactation consultant didn't work weekends. The hospital's view was essentially: Breastfeeding had to "just work" or else formula. Nothing in-between. Ultimately our kid was 90% breastfed with minimum supplemental formula, we also were able to move away from the Nipple Shield within a month. But yet things like Nipple Shields get fought even by some lactation consultants and many hospitals. You can find numerous articles pointing out why they're bad, but in my view "fed is best" and by attacking assisted devices like they do, all they're indirectly doing is hurting mothers trying to breastfeed, many of which will give up, and just use formula (since they're essentially called bad mothers either for using assisted devices OR formula, so may have well lean into it). When we had our second, he was a larger baby, and while we did need the shield, he only needed it for a week total. The different lactation consultant recommended "trying without" every time we met her even when it was self-evident it was ineffective. TL;DR: Breastfeeding information, advice, and assistance is shit-tier in the US and is very hit-or-miss.
- NoRagrets 4y ago[flagged]
- kneebonian 4y agoIt's almost like pink capitalism is about doubling the supply of labor in order to decrease price. But I am sure all those companies that are promising to provide support for abortion are doing it out of a commitment to women's rights and not as an exercise to avoid having to deal with maternity leave. After all remember he or she who dies with the most stuff or the biggest 401k wins.
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoIt’s the same thing with paying for freezing their eggs. Corporations are not doing it from the kindness of their hearts or in support of female reproductive rights. It’s not that expensive if the woman is doing such an important job pulling big bucks. It’s human nature to look for ‘deals’. I can’t even…gah. I am not at all worried about the shrinking birth rate and fertility rate. It’s an adjustment that is needed. We have jumped the shark long ago. It’s collateral damage for much needed booming capitalism. So what’s the other option? Starve and live in poverty? I guess the balance is somewhere in the middle and we will get there someday.
- Fauntleroy 4y agoI wish I lived in your fantasy land where a single income household could still work.
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoIt works for some people. Ask yourself why it doesn’t work for you. There is no right or wrong here. Everyone makes choices that work for them. No point whining about it later.
- kneebonian 4y agoWorks in my household.
- roland35 4y agoBreastfeeding isn't easy! Some babies just never really get it, and if you don't start right away it's hard to produce enough breast milk.
- piyushpr134 4y agoThis is an important point. BAbies need to do hard work to get milk. But when they get hooked to easy milk i.e. formula, they just won't do the hardwork knowing that nipple of bottle is just a heart shaking cry away. Parents fall for child psychology. New moms think they know better than their moms and that they are experiencing something new.
- MandieD 4y agoI was about to be the third generation of women who relied on formula (grandmother tried and failed at age 20 around 1940 despite plenty of help from her mother, mother didn’t bother at 35 in 1980), but for a modern miracle: portable, configurable milk pumps, good accessories, and something of a data-driven mindset. If one takes this “exclusive pumping” route, or something close (we supplemented with formula as needed early on), you better track production, consumption and baby weight. Formula now is better than formula in 1980 and far better than formula in 1940, so no one should feel bad about using it, but I don’t regret the effort I put in. I think it’s a lot of why, unlike said grandmother and mother, I got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight without much other effort.
- yonaguska 4y agoBreastmilk is still better than formula, even today's standards of formula. One of the very cool things about breastmilk is that it becomes more nutrient dense as the baby gets older, whereas with formula, you need to give the baby more and more of it. Another thing about the weight, all of the expected weight charts are based on formula feeding. You need to use separate weight charts for breastmilk only weight gain. If you are breastfeeding, it's common for doctors to incorrectly suggest you supplement the breastmilk with formula because your baby is "underweight", when they actually aren't. Supplementing with complex carbs like rice cereal is also probably not very good for your baby, with no real upside. Strategy that we are going with is no complex carbs at all, just supplementing with steamed veggies and fruits now that we're onto solids.
- moeris 4y agoMost of the comments here are implying that there is some environmental change which has caused breastfeeding to become harder or less efficient. The article doesn't seem to say that, though. I didn't see any implication that breastfeeding was better back in prehistory. It's possible that it's always been hard. Being in a social group large enough that there are other mothers would solve the issue, largely.
- colpabar 4y agoIt's against the rules to imply this but most of the comments here are written by people who don't read the articles.
- TchoBeer 4y agoMost HN comments sections are like this, where the title is more a nucleation site for a discussion than commenting on the actual article.
- Dowwie 4y agoWe don't talk about that here, you know this.
- red-iron-pine 4y agoOn a work computer. Can't always access the articles. Plus I'm looking to see if it is worth the risk -- a lot of articles are clickbate.
- klyrs 4y agoTechnically, the rule is against accusing an individual of not reading the article. It's widely known that most of us smash reply before reading the third word of the headline -- that's why the site automatically strips words like "why" and "how" from titles; it really improves the chances that comments will be at least topical. Note, snark like the above is explicitly forbidden.
- KoftaBob 4y agoTo add onto that, for a discussion board that prides itself on being more intellectually minded, there's a disappointing number of clickbaity/misleading headlines posted here on any given day.
- drekipus 4y agoMy wife is breastfeeding our 10 month old. It was very difficult as the start, getting the latch right, etc. There's the element of "how to do it" which isn't passed down so readily. Great Grandma didn't tell grandma, and grandma had a hard time helping mum. Western society doesn't have a good track record of intergenerational support and family wisdom. Stress is also a large part of it. We turned off all news and removed TVs, etc. Once she's on "perpetual maternity leave" and not pressured to return she was a lot calmer just staying around the house with me and the baby.
- klyrs 4y agoMy mom breastfed me in the 80s, but didn't produce enough milk. So, she had a wet nurse. This practice was mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, and probably goes back even further. That women are taught that this is a biological imperative is astonishingly ignorant of human history. Humans are not solitary by nature. We evolved as a society. It should be no surprise that we have evolved to rely upon that. And, no surprise, wet-nursing occurs in other social mammals too, even cross-species, just as we supplement with cow's milk. That said, it's great to hear that scientists are exploring the mindbogglingly complex hormonal interactions at play. We won't change the culture, failure to breastfeed will still cause shame for this perfectly normal occurrence. It would be good for new parents to feel less stress in regards to this aspect of childrearing.
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoI too don’t understand why wet nurses aren’t a thing in our modern times. I suspect being bipedal has been an impediment for motherhood. Most mammals raise their young together communally. Human beings did not evolve to be solitary creatures and in our times, for nuclear families. Large extended families and tribal cohesiveness is how humans survived.
- garciasn 4y ago1. Because 'stuff' can be transferred via breast milk and, in general, people cannot be trusted. 2. Because we now have formula, which was intended to allow society to move on in a way which allowed females more freedom after birth. 3. Because, to quote Lenina Huxley, "Eeewww, disgusting! You mean... fluid transfer?" --- We ended up nearly unknowingly starving both of our children through breastfeeding. We only knew this happened after the second one ended up in the NICU for four days even though we were working with Lactation Consultants, Pediatricians, and Nurses who assured us our children were getting enough to eat. My wife, instead, had to spend 2+ years pumping and exclusively bottle feeding because we didn't want to go with the formula route and we had the means to have her stay at home--something most parents cannot do.
- 4y ago
- mturmon 4y agoBest observation I heard relating to this is: As a new parent you go to class for the delivery experience, an experience which lasts for a day or so and is well-supported while it happens by all kinds of staff. You also get a couple of classes on breastfeeding, an experience which lasts for months and is very poorly supported while it happens. The emphasis is off -- as noted by the OP when it observes that we know far more about cow milk than breast milk. And of course, there has been a lot of back-and-forth (google term: Mommy wars) on practices and expectations around breastfeeding.
- Dove 4y agoI started aggressively filtering my water (Berkey black + white filters) during my last pregnancy, and I was amazed how much better I felt and how much more water I wanted to drink. I was trying very hard to drink lots of water to support the pregnancy, and found it difficult. When I started filtering it, it became really easy and I felt a lot better to boot. I still get pretty low key dehydrated if I try to subsist on tap water. I suspect my body is balancing my need for water against something in the water it doesn't like. Fluoride is a prime suspect, but any number of other things are possibilities and I wouldn't really have any way to know. But I do often wonder if I'm far from the only one with such an issue, and most people never find it. I didn't for a long time. It is an easy guess for me that if there's something in the water that's bothering you, and you need to dramatically increase your intake to support two people, biological problems and tradeoffs might ensue. And nursing in particular does require an awful lot of water. I ultimately started filtering all of my water, and it seems like an obvious thing to do in retrospect -- like having a firewall for your home network. It seems silly to me now that I ever assumed that any old pipe sludge that found its way into the system at any point was something I would necessarily want in my body.
- tbonesteaks 4y agoBerkey for the win! It has been so useful for my family. During and after pregnancies. If you can get one, I highly recommend it.
- boringg 4y agoCan you attach those filters to a faucet or are you required to have a separate device where you put the water?
- spoiler 4y agoI had a similar issue of always forcing myself to drink water, not liking it very much and ended up not drinking enough anyway. This lead me to have all sorts of "symptoms" (I was probably bordering being dehydrated). Then I bought a filter jug (Brita) and I love water now.
- etrautmann 4y agoI'm with you until the fluoride bit. Do you have any medical evidence to suggest there's any issue with fluoride? Also why Berkey? They're extraordinarily expensive relative to alternatives, primarily for aesthetic gain.
- ta1243 4y agoMy wife had major problems in the hospital trying to feed our first born. A couple of days in and a charity worker visited, showed her how to do it, and 10 minutes later all was sorted.
- cjohnson318 4y agoFor my wife, it was the fact that our kids all had tongue and cheek/mouth ties. As soon as those were cut, they nursed normally. We'd asked at the hospital if our kids had tongue ties, and their rubric was, "Can your kid make a taco tongue? If they can, then they don't have a tongue tie." It turns out that this is not the case. According to modern American medicine, tongue ties don't exist, and if they did exist, your kid will get over them, and anyway here's a bottle, good luck. After we took our kids to a specialist to fix their tongue ties, they went from nursing and crying all night long, to nursing for 15 minutes and sleeping normally. Tongue ties are a thing. If your kid is exhausted from trying to nurse all night and can't get full, then they might have a tongue tie.
- mncharity 4y agoA friend managed the relationship between her diet and her baby's digestive happiness/distress with experimental care. Slowly expanding her dietary envelope; backing out unsuccessful additions; doing retries; retreating to a small core when there was non-determinism, etc. Careful documentation, timing, observation - I was impressed. She accumulated lists of foods which weren't working. Which isn't novel - there were various on the internet. They even overlap. A thick booklet came in her mail. Part of the pregnancy ad deluge. It was a free cookbook, of easy to prepare recipes for the nursing mother. But curiously, the recipes overlapped with her causes-distress list. Like, massively overlapped. I was puzzled - how could this be? Then, in small print, on a back page: Nestlé. I wonder how many of those they send out each year?
- hi41 4y agoAs a young father, I did not know how to bathe my little baby. I poured water over her face and she inhaled the water. She couldn’t breathe and turned slightly blue. I called 911. I feel so terribly ashamed of that. I did not know the basic fact that one must not pour water over the face of a baby. There was nobody around me to teach me how to bathe a baby. National Geographic must also write an article about dad like me who can’t bathe their babies. My daughter is okay. She is a grown kid now.